Job Discussion Forums

Otterman Ollie · Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:55 am Post subject:

Is this forum a likely place where we can devise strategies that may bring a way around this issue?
Between us, are there not pratical solutions that we can offer to our various administrations so that we are reflected in a better light with regards to our students language acquisition and reproduction ?How many extra curricular activities does your place of work run to supplement what they learn in the class so that some meaningful communication can take place ? Do you think this would be a step in the right direction ? Does the trainer development / material development centres do enough to tackle this problem ?
Leaving culture and motivation factors to one side and getting back to the OP question yes after a long time at prep level students still do not have a basic command of English ,whats wrong ? Us or the system ?

justme · Joined: 18 May 2004 Posts: 1944 Location: Istanbul

I got this bee in my bonnet right before classes started-- here're a few things I found...

www.actr.org/JER/issue4/11.htm

http://iteslj.org/Techniques/Kodotchigova-RolePlay.html

www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/j/a/jab63/identity.bibliography.html

Let me know if they work. I skimmed them and stuck them into the favorites file, but now I don't really remember what they're about...

Mark Loyd · Joined: 13 Sep 2005 Posts: 517

student reproduction???????????

ImanH · Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 214 Location: Istanbul

TeachEnglish · Joined: 09 Feb 2005 Posts: 239

Mark Loyd · Joined: 13 Sep 2005 Posts: 517

And poor, give em a gap fill from Betty Azar, Turkish teachers
And poor, gecsin gecsin n`olacak, Turkish teachers

ImanH · Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 214 Location: Istanbul

I had a look through a couple of articles and they provided some quite interesting insights. One article (Acheson) considered American students studying Spanish and found that the grades of students in the school�s foreign language classes were much lower than their grade point averages, that at least half of students put in only just enough effort to pass and that a few weeks or months after the completion of the foreign language courses most did not remember enough to carry on a simple introductory conversation. The bottom line of the article is that the author puts this down to negative attitudes towards the cultures associated with the languages; what he terms students� �derogatory, condescending attitude� towards Spanish culture in general and Mexican culture in particular. He puts forward a variety of measures that could combat this, but which fundamentally come down to the need for cultural learning to be inextricably taught along with language learning in the classroom, and not in superficial terms because:

molly farquharson · Joined: 16 Jun 2004 Posts: 839 Location: istanbul

I think the respect issue is very important. I know also for some, there is a fear that they will lose their first language (though that is more in Eng-spkg countries). Another aspect is whether the teacher herself speaks other languages. I knew so many ESL teachers in the US who did not know another language and had not had the exerience of trying to learn a language as an adult-- feeling like a child again can be uncomfortable. to say the least. Motivation is probably the most important of all-- is this language going to be of use to me? When? Why? It's hard when the students walk out the door back into Turkish. At the same time, most teachers I know live in English and have not learned much Turkish, so it goes both ways.

justme · Joined: 18 May 2004 Posts: 1944 Location: Istanbul

Language, essentially, is a tool. Humans acquire the tool to reach certain ends. I guess what we have to decide is how we shape the tool for the students so that it strikes them as a worthwhile one. I've yet to find a way. Clubs and other extra-curricular activities aren't the answer-- we tried that at students' request last year, and only one came. So called-conversation club, where one guy just wanted me to tell him for 2 hours a week how he could improve his English. Oh, and clarify grammar things he didn't understand. I quit going because it was boring.

For most of my students, awareness of my culture is not part of the tool they'll need. The stuff about culture in my books can be irrelevent, or annoying, or maddening, but for most of them, it's just bells and whistles getting in the way of the grammar learning they need to pass their exams.

Exams are the near goal. Learning English to use in future uni studies or for a future job is a distant goal. They're not interested in the fact that passing the exam doesn't mean they can communicate in English beyond a few monosyllabic grunts and stutters. But decent adult communication is a distant worry. And for whatever reason, none of us, not even the Turks, can convince them that production is the fastest way to acquire all that beautiful grammar. Can't say I blame them-- I didn't believe my teachers either when they told me this, not until I went travelling and found out it's true. But before that it was all rules and 'Hey, this is future tense but it's only one unit in the book so it can't be all that important. Is there gonna be a quiz?'

So that's part of the question, I suppose-- making English a relevant tool for their goals. And getting them to understand that the exam is just to check how they're reaching that goal. Oh, and changing exams so that they actually measure what we state to be the goals. Exams without mult. choice and the all-powerful KEY seem to be unheard of. No one will have it. I've been having to write the keys to accompany beginning exams, even though one would hope everyone knows the answers at a glance. But if you don't do it, all the Turks go, 'Where's the key?'

So much to do, so little time....