Job Discussion Forums

[Plume D'ella Plumeria]

I've been offered two very different jobs in China and I'm wondering if anyone knows of these schools and can give some advice.

One is teaching kindergarten in Beijing, through the Canada Kingbridge Education Group, teaching at a school called Prince Island English Kindergarten. They are offering a salary of 7500 RMB for teaching thirty-five hours a week. I thought I had read elsewhere on this forum that twenty teaching hours was more the standard. Do you think that they are asking too many hours for the salary they are offering or is this standard these days?

The other offer is from the Guangdong Industry Technical College. They are offering 6000 RMB for an average of 13 hours a week. They are apparently located in Guangzhou. There are a couple of things about this offer that alarm me. One is that I did a search on here and saw some posts about this institution. A couple of people seemed to think it was an okay place, but a couple of others seemed to think it might be a bit dodgey. I came away not knowing what to believe. Does anyone have any up-to-date, first person, been-there-done-that stories about the place?

Another area of concern is whether the salary they are quoting is enough to live comfortably in Guangzhou. That's a pretty large city, isn't it? Is it as expensive as Shanghai or Beijing? If it is, I would think it might be hard to get by - COMFORTABLY, that is - on that salary.

My last worry is about Guangzhou itself. I have seen some pretty negative comments about it. What is it that makes it such a terrible place? Pollution? Traffic nightmares? Overcrowding? Lack of natural beauty, pleasing architecture, parks and green areas? Rude, unfriendly people? Can anyone give specifics? Or better yet - does anyone have anything positive to say about it?

I will end this by saying that I haven't made any decisions yet and if it turns out that people tell me that both of those places are losers, then I'll keep looking. On a tangent, if anyone at a good school knows of any upcoming vacancies, feel free to PM me. I've a BA in Education, a teaching certification and heaps of teaching experience in both Asia and Europe.

Thanks in advance for any feedback anyone has to give - that is, if ANYONE has ANY to give at all!

[Sinobear]

If you're a certified teacher, why not try the foreign o/o schools such as ISB?

Guangzhou and Beijing are extremes...people seem to either love the city or hate it. I love Beijing, but I'm stuck in Guangzhou. Others love GZ and hate Beijing.

If you are claustrophobic, do not like being shoulder-to-shoulder with strangers, despise haggling...then GZ is not for you.

Pricewise, I find both cities to be expensive should you partake of the foreign trappings. If your contract included decent, free housing, then your salary is okay.

Yes, 35-hours is too much.

Lastly...the specifics of living in either city is a matter of personal taste and opinion. Tell us more about your preferences for living and working and we can be of more help.

Cheers!

[nolefan]

just from the salary point of view, 35 hours is way too much for just 7500RMB. That is way below the norm for anywhere in china, especially a kindergarden.

[vikdk]

in a kindy 35 hours in a 5 day week is impossible if they are teaching hours -classes start at 9 and usually finish 11.30, kids then eat and sleep and start again at 3 and finish at 5 (or maybe 6 is if they push it) - that gives a max of 27.5 hours - to do that youll also be very hard pushed with no breaks!! - so those hours probally mean weekend and evening classes which are horror classes for small kids - otherwise they pay you for the time you prepare classes. 7.5K for those hours is half what you should really expect!

[Spiderman Too]

Guangdong Industry Technical College has 2 campuses; one is in Guangzhou city and the other is in Nanhai, Foshan, Guangdong which is a 1 hour bus ride from Guangzhou city.

Some kindergartens require foreign teachers to be 'on the premises' for 35 hours per week, i.e. 5 days @ 7 hours, but actual class time is around 15 - 20 hours per week.

[Roger]

6000 yuan is a GOOD salary at a Chinese university - even in Guangzhou. Apparently the offer you mentioned is above average. 13 hours a week is a trifle.

Whether you like or loathe Guangzhou - or Peking for that matter - is entirely a matter of your own personality. Since over 7 million - some say 10 million - inhabitants have made Guangzhou their home it can't be 100 percent bad.
It ain't Paris, and it ain't Jerusalem either; it is a cross between Cairo (for the climate and the claustrophobia) and Manchester (for the industrialisation and some colonial architecture). Pollution is a global problem, not confined to China even if CHinese cities tend to have some of the worst air and water quality.
You will live on a relatively quiet, green campus; I have no idea whereabouts your potential employer has its campus but it must be in the suburbs.
There certainly are mitigating circumstances that make living in Guangzhou thoroughly possible and even enjoyable: it has huge public parks (such as Baiyun Park, Yuexiu Park), wide water courses (tributaries of the Pearl River), an exquisitely well-preserved European-era neighbourhood (on Shamian island), a lot of good shopping malls (to name but Teem Plaza in Tianhe, Friendship Store in Huanshi Donglu, Beijing Lu pedestrianised area), a variety of Chinese provincial cuisines and international restaurants (ranging from Turkish to Hawaiian), plus the location is interesting for those who wish to make occasional visits to Hong Kong.

Going away for a weekend isn't a big deal - COnghua, Meizhou, Zhaoqing, Macau and Hong Kong are only 1-3 hours away, and offer exciting getaways!

[Mideatoo]

7500 RMB for 30 hours is short for slavery, and 7500 in Beijing is really not enough.
There is nothing to like in GZ, winter is mild unless windy, people are know for there rudeness I guess... The town is simply dirty. But that's all China...
I thing the subway stops by Guangdong Industry Technical College. 6000K is alright, although not for my living standard, and you can make 150RMB/H extras on the side.

[Plume D'ella Plumeria]

Thank you to everyone who responded; your responses have been very helpful and thought-provoking. The deal with the kindergarten is that I would be working from 8:00 - 5:00. I would be teaching from 8 - 12, followed by a two hour break and then teaching again from 2 - 5. I myself had thought that a bit excessive, given the salary, and from what people are saying, perhaps I was right.

The Technical College is looking better and better. No one has heard anything bad about it then? Have they got a reputation for being honest and upstanding or am I kidding myself completely??

[shenyanggerry]

I'd suggest you ask for contact information on current and former teachers. They should set you straight.

Ask for details about accomodation, distance from classes, days off, school location, air fare, continuous pay, etc. To me GZ sounds like a good offer.

I'm paid much less a month. However, my contract includes months with only a class or two for full pay. I figure that counting my airfare and value of my apartment, my real pay per hour (50 min) worked is excellent.

[ChrisP]

I don't think there is any question. Would you rather teach college students for 13 hours a week or kindergartners for 35 hours? What kind of masochist would prefer the latter?
Where you want to live is a matter of preference, but I would take Guangzhou over Beijing anytime.
As for the 6,000: assuming housing is provided, it is enough to live just fine. Remember, you teach only 13 hours a week. There is plenty of time to make additional income.

[KarenB]

Do both those jobs include a rent-free apartment with free utilities? If so, the salary isn't too bad, but teaching 35 hours a week should require a much higher salary -- you'll be going nuts being with the little monsters that long.

If those salaries don't include free housing and utilities, I'd look elsewhere. That's not nearly enough to pay for housing (at least housing that you'd want) plus all your other expenses in those cities.

I haven't been in Beijing in several years, but last I was there, it had a bad pollution problem, caused by sand storms in the Spring, and too many coal-burning factories in area. I've heard it's getting a little better though.

The Shamian-Dao area of Guangzhou is lovely -- old colonial buildings and mature trees -- it's an island where the foreigners used to live in the old days. In my opinion the rest of Guangzhou is grey and ugly.

[Plume D'ella Plumeria]

Thanks, gerry, Chris and Karen, for the suggestions and feedback. I ended up going with GZ. I've been here less than a week so it's a bit early to say anything definitive, but so far, things are looking good.

No, GZ is not the most stunning city in the world, but I'm finding good in it, motorbikes notwithstanding. I know these are not solely a GZ phenomenon but they do tend to send me into a frenzy of terror. This shall pass, one hopes.

The college does seem to concern itself with our well-being and contentment, and I am very appreciative of that. Yes, there are delays and mix-ups (I'm still waiting for hot water in the flat), but in all fairness to them, they are trying and the delays aren't really their fault. I've been promised hot water tomorrow, which means with luck, I may have it by the weekend.

Anyone else out there in GZ? Any ideas about where I can find Western food ingredients... are there any places where such things as olive oil, European-type breads and lamb can be found? Or is that too much to hope for? I like duck well enough, but I am also longing for a good Mediterrean dish...

[chicagojoe]

The only place you're likely to find olive oil, etc. is perhaps if you have a long weekend or holiday and make a trip to the former Portuguese enclave of Macao.

[Spiderman Too]

Plume D'ella Plumeria, where did Guangdong Industry Technical College place you; Guangzhou city or Nanhai? I am thinking about applying to the college next year (September) so, later, I would very much appreciate your advice on the complete deal at Guangdong Industry Technical College.

Generally speaking, Jusco at Tee Mall (Ti Yu Xi Lu Metro station), Park N Shop at Tian He (Ti Yu Zhong Xin Metro station), Lotus Super Center (Sun Yuan Li Metro station) and Carrefour (several locations) and good sources for 'western' food.

For more specific info, join this forum http://groups.yahoo.com/group/guangzhou-living/ and/or send a PM to Roger who is THE expert on Guangzhou / Guangdong and surrounds.

[Plume D'ella Plumeria]

Thank you, Spiderman Too; I'll check out those places.

Almost all of us at the college are teaching in Nanhai at least one day a week. It's a bit of a pain because we are living on the GZ campus and commuting out to NH. The school is providing alternate housing for us on the NH campus, but it's not really viable as there is nothing - and I do mean NOTHING - in NH, aside from the campus. No supermarkets, no restaurants, nothing to do. We have chosen to do the commute in order to get back to "civilization." The reason it's a pain is because it's around an hour, depending on traffic and there are only two buses a day, so it can mean waiting around for a couple of hours. I'm not wild about the idea of having my time wasted like that, so I try to use the time productively - doing lesson plans, for example. I think if you end up working for the college, it is highly likely that you will be teaching out at NH one or more days a week.

Having said all that though, I am finding it a good place to work for the most part. If you want more details or have any specific questions, feel free to PM me.