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redsoxfan
Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 178 Location: Dystopia
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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:02 pm Post subject: In Defense of Callan Method |
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So that got your attention! I am somewhat playing devil's advocate here, if for no other reason than to hear others' thoughts. I've taught with the Callan Method, and I for one, think it is quite effective in the following manners:
First, it takes about 12 months to complete the method, if it is taught properly. Most students, upon finishing, will have learned the lion's share of the 4000 vocab words. That's a lot. They also understand spoken English very well. I find that I can speak conversational English to Callan students on, let's say, stage 5 or 6, and they understand me quite well. Mind you, they have only been studying English for a little over half a year. They are used to the rapid-fire approach of the method, so a conversational rate of speaking is generally no problem for them. Additionally, Callan students, after about a year, will have spoken English much, much more than students learning by traditional methods. The Callan method consists almost entirely of listening and speaking, with token amounts of reading and writing. Again, after only one year of study, most students really do know the vocab, can understand spoken English far better than traditional method students, and have hopefully developed the courage to speak. After all, hearing yourself speak a foreign language can be strange, and many English students could speak much better than they do, but they've convinced themselves that they can't speak--only read and write.
Now, a few criticisms. The method is in desperate need of a revision. Every other textbook is revised, why not Callan? Using "should" for the first person conditional? "I should go to the cinema if I had money." And "Shan't." C'mon, I think students should be taught to speak articulately, but that's too much. Also, the grammar is taught in English. I really don't think that grammar should be taught primarily in a secondary language, especially when the students are not already conversationally fluent. Can you imagine learning Polish grammar in Polish, when you had only been studying Polish for 3 months?! Now, in defense of the Callan method, there is, at my school, a grammar round-up section at the end of each stage which is always done by a Polish teacher, who translates each question into Polish.
I have often heard the criticism that students, even after completing the whole course, cannot speak independently. This is true sometimes, but it is also disputed by the students who can speak English. I would ask such folks this: What method can teach students to be conversationally fluent in English in one year? I've had students who've begun studying by Callan method who had studied English for years and couldn't say peep. They learned more in a month with Callan than they'd learned in years through textbooks. Granted, much of the fault of this lies with their teachers, who certainly didn't push them hard enough. But then again, this is yet another strength of the Callan method--it checks against the plethora of bad teachers who waste students' time. How many English teachers are good teachers, with reference to both public and private schools? I dunno.
I do think that students often emerge from Callan with a sort of robot complex. They are used to being prompted, and poor students sometimes use this as an excuse to put thinking on the back burner. However, poor students, I believe, still learn more through Callan. Basically, I think that if a student attends class and has half a brain, she will have a very strong basis from which to begin to speak conversational English independently. Even if she needs to shake off a few bad habits acquired from Callan.
The reason that many teachers, many of whom having never taught Callan method, foam at the mouth at the very mention of the word, is this: If the claims of the method are true--that is, that it teaches English four times faster than traditional methods (I think maybe 3 times faster in reality, but who knows), the qualifications of English teachers are rendered less important. I think often, though certainly not always, the knee-jerk reaction to the method is based on ego more than a genuine concern for teaching English efficiently.
My girlfriend taught me Polish with Callan method (with some heavy-handed editing of irrelevancies like the grammar) and my sentiments were only confirmed.
Let the roasting begin! |
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Alex Shulgin
Joined: 20 Jul 2003 Posts: 553
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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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There could be a single perfect language teaching method, if all learners were the same. They aren't, so there isn't.
The best method is always the one which works best with that particular student. Rigidly following one method will inevitably mean some students don't learn as well or as fast as they could. |
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redsoxfan
Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 178 Location: Dystopia
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Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:50 am Post subject: |
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Yes, that's true. I, for one, am a visual learner. I will continue to ask for translations of the same word into Polish until I see it. But I think the "differences" between students are often exaggerated--the real differences are that some students are more intellegent, better at languages, harder-working and more attentive than others. Look, the Callan method is just questions and answers, over and over. That's what a language is--questions and answers. If a student has problems with the very notion of questions and answers, well...I don't know what to tell you! Maybe he or she should repeat a lower stage of the method, or study harder at home. Or attend class--because, in my experience, there is a noticeable correlation between class attendence and ability in my Callan classes.
Furthermore, for a moment, forget the name "Callan." The underlying logic of the method is so clearly correct to me: introduce a few new words, and ask questions and elicit answers. Then introduce a few more...just keep building off what the students know. It's so natural, simple and efficient. Also, the reason that Callan students usually learn faster is that there is no wasted time--and you can only have no wasted time--not even 15 seconds a class--when you have a rigid method that is planned out precisely. Otherwise, there is so much time wasted. When I taught traditional methods last year, I was so frustrated because I knew that the amount of English--that is, words/minute--being spoken was a small fraction of what it should be. Look, when a student spends four seconds trying to think of a word, that's four wasted seconds for every student in the class. And when every student wastes four seconds per word, twice per sentence, the effect is that the amount of CORRECT English being spoken is a small fraction of what it should be. Until students can speak English rather well, the teacher should tell the student the correct word, the student should say it, and the class moves on. Traditional methods, to me, are usually sloppy in their logic. Learning a language efficiently requires a scientifically sound method. Traditional courses, to me, are usually the equivalent of stabbing blindly in the dark for success. Callan is almost military-like in its form; it's not pretty, it's not funny, it's annoying, but it works.
Finally, I want to make it clear that I am only advocating the method until the intermediate level. After a student is at a solid intermediate level of English, she should switch to more conversational and, dare I say, traditional methods, with a heavy dose of grammar. The Callan method puts most students at an (almost) intermediate level in about a year. That's impressive. The poor students would be even worse if they didn't study with such a method. That's just my two cents. If you want more criticisms of the method, I would be more than happy to oblige, because there are plenty of things that are bothersome! |
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gregoryfromcali

Joined: 25 Feb 2005 Posts: 1207 Location: People's Republic of Shanghai
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Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 2:36 am Post subject: |
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| Traditional methods, to me, are usually sloppy in their logic. Learning a language efficiently requires a scientifically sound method. Traditional courses, to me, are usually the equivalent of stabbing blindly in the dark for success. Callan is almost military-like in its form; it's not pretty, it's not funny, it's annoying, but it works. |
I don't think anyone here is advocating "traditional methods" which is why almost everyone here takes the CELTA course.
There are four types of learners the Callan method is perfect for the listener. The listener gets to hear the same language again and again and gives them enough time to memorize it.
I am a listener. If I hear something enough I will remember it. For example I am the guy who has to hear your name a few times to remember who you are. Because that's the process my brain usually has to go through to retain something. I am also the type of person who can remember interesting conversations word for word.
Why is it that I can remember interesting conversations word for word? Because they're interesting.
Which is where I think the Callan method has its faults. A big part of teaching, once someone knows the basics, is simply having fun. With the communicative method a big part "having fun" is by generating interest. If you can generate interest in your topic for the day then from there on it's easy to get your students to speak and your students want to communicate.
Not only that, but if your class is having fun talking about an interesting topic then they are much more likely to remember the target language. This is simply how the brain works.
A good communicative lessons is the difference between a great movie and a boring one.
The lessons you were talking about, probably weren't producing good results because they weren't interesting and the students weren't having a good time.
It takes about a year to start to understand how to make teaching fun for the students and after that it is still a challenge.
After teaching for close to 3 years now it's usually easy for me to have a "fun" class. How do I do it? I have a variety of activities. Once in a blue moon I might do something a little like the Callan method, for example if I'm drilling them on phrasal verbs or as a quick review (for about 5 mintues), but then we'll usually jump into an open discussion and then something completely different.
In some of my classes now it feels more like we're all sitting in a cafe having a lively discussion. My students are even telling jokes and we may laugh through the whole lesson. Have you heard this happening in a Callan lesson? Because this is what happens in life. Language is about communication.
Although I agree to some extent that teaching communication and teaching grammar isn't the same. Understanding grammar is important if the student wishes to go to the advanced levels. As you mentioned the Callan method leaves this out.
I've taught CPE and I can tell you that at that level the writing assignments are very difficult. And if a student doesn't have a strong foundation in grammar they will not pass the CPE exam (or the CAE for that matter). Because at the advanced levels grammar should be second nature.
So why would a student want to study the Callan method and then go back to English File only re-learn everything again?
Now getting back to speaking, if a student gets stuck searching for a word, that's fine, the other students around them are probably producing that word themselves anyway. Besides if you're studying Polish I'm sure you know by now that this is all apart of learning a new language and we all have to go through it.
There was nothing I hated more than to stand in the front of the line at a post office or at a train station ticket window and getting stuck trying to remember the word I wanted. But we have to go through it, if we don't then we'll never become fluent.
(To be honest it sounds like you were impatient when your students were "stuck" which to me, means you probably weren't really listening to your students the way you would listen to a friend when your friends speak. When I teach I now usually listen to the students as if we were having a real conversation with adults anyway . Although it can be a challenge for the teacher, the students know when the teacher is actually interested in what they have to say or the teacher justs wants to continue with the lesson.)
By the way, when you're watching the news are you asking questions? No, there are times when we simply listen and they are times when we simply speak, for example giving a speech or telling a story.
But I don't think we ever simply jump into a random series of questions and answers in which we can simply parrot another person, which is why the Callan methos is often criticized.
Although I think for me I could learn Polish for example with the Callan method as I am a listener. I don't think I would find the lessons as interesting as a good Polish communicative lesson with lots of listening excerises. On top of that I could simply buy Pimsleur language cassettes and probably get the same benefit without paying a high price.
Last edited by gregoryfromcali on Sat Oct 22, 2005 5:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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slodziak
Joined: 17 Oct 2005 Posts: 143 Location: Tokyo
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Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 6:22 am Post subject: |
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The Callan is method is taught extensively throughout Europe and Asia; for any method to prove this popular it must have something to it. While I have no personal experience teaching or being taught the Callan way I know students and teachers who have. It is fair to say that most of the negative criticism comes from teachers who seem to find the method restrictive and dull. However I have been told that there is a relative amount of flexibility afforded the teacher in certain schools; in some cases the teacher only has to use Callan as a base on which to build there own style of lesson. Students on the other hand seem rather more positive in their appraisal of learning the Callan way � on the whole they believe it really works for them. I have to say from meeting some of them they are right; they communicate with me with a lot of confidence and accuracy � quite impressive.
However this reply is more a response to this quote:
[The reason that many teachers, many of whom having never taught Callan method, foam at the mouth at the very mention of the word, is this: If the claims of the method are true--that is, that it teaches English four times faster than traditional methods (I think maybe 3 times faster in reality, but who knows), the qualifications of English teachers are rendered less important. I think often, though certainly not always, the knee-jerk reaction to the method is based on ego more than a genuine concern for teaching English efficiently.]
While I am sure that redsoxfan has written this more as an instrument to stir the ardor of a well qualified teacher like myself than any well thought through ridicule on the virtue of qualifications I nonetheless feel obliged to reply.
Comparing the speed a student can learn English to the rendering less important of teaching qualifications is banal claptrap. There are several reasons why I say this, I list a couple of them below.
Firstly, as a student you want to know your teacher has mastery not only over their own language but over many of the grammatical and lexical laws that govern it; you want to know that you can stop your teacher at any point, ask a question and get an answer based in sound linguistic knowledge � a qualification (or lack of one) while by no means guaranteeing the ability of your teacher to do this, is at least an indicator of what you might expect from them. As a Callan teacher I would feel much happier and more confident in my teaching if I knew I had the respect of my students because of my ability to answer questions satisfactorily and that I was backed up with a good qualification.
Secondly, while it is clear that the �military� like method of Callan works it is equally apparent to me that a more dynamic style of teaching is also highly effective. Students like flexibility in the classroom. A key skill of a teacher is to spot when students are beginning to get bored with an exercise and then change - keeping the classroom alive and fun. I am not saying that Callan is boring for students (even though the promotional video on the Callan website (http://www.callan.co.uk/engindex.htm) shows a bunch of students who seem to have passed their tedium threshold sometime in the last century) I am saying that they learn more effectively in a dynamic classroom. Students have to be motivated to learn; at the beginning of the course the motivation can be an intrinsic need for self betterment or an extrinsic desire to help their career, if you add to that an extrinsic joy of going to lessons you know you have a student who is going to learn well. Again qualifications are an important way of gaining this skill. I know that without the CELTA I would be stuck in many situations in which the students have ceased to find my lessons interesting. Gaining qualifications beyond the CELTA have only added to my confidence in attracting and maintaining student motivation.
I could go on but I don�t want to bore anyone who has already been generous enough to read this far.
I am interested, redsoxfan, in how long you have been teaching the Callan method and how long you wish to continue teaching it. Is it something you can see yourself doing for the rest of your career? I am in English teaching for life, I enjoy it and I find it very rewarding. Without the chance of gaining more knowledge and having qualification goals in front of me I would feel much less inclined to feel satisfied with what I was doing. Do you feel the same?
You could be right about ego though.
Well done for getting me riled; it�s a good post and I look forward to reading more replies. |
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redsoxfan
Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 178 Location: Dystopia
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Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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gregoryfromcali wrote:
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Why is it that I can remember interesting conversations word for word? Because they're interesting.
Which is where I think the Callan method has its faults. A big part of teaching, once someone knows the basics, is simply having fun. With the communicative method a big part "having fun" is by generating interest. |
Other things being equal, I agree that having "fun" classes are better. However, I still don't think students learn as much at, let's say, a pre-intermediate level by having conversation classes. I don't think they are capable of having a conversation, and they would do better to learn grammar and vocab. What level are your students? The Callan method will only get students to an intermediate level, so after that, yes they should be speaking more freely. If you are teaching students who already speak English quite well, then our thoughts are not in conflict. After completing the year-long Callan course, students should indeed be speaking more independently.
Again, there's no way, in my opinion, that a beginning, pre-intermediate or intermediate student would learn more from a conversation-based class than he would from Callan.
gregoryfromcali wrote:
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Understanding grammar is important if the student wishes to go to the advanced levels. As you mentioned the Callan method leaves this out.
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Callan does not leave out grammar. The method just does a lousy job with it. In fact, there's too much grammar in some sections, which I know does little for the students. Grammar will not be learned well through the Callan method; the method should be revised such that grammar is taught in the students' native languages, from a textbook. Callan figured that students would just absorb the grammar, and from my experience, he overshot the mark on that one. That said, many schools do a separate grammar revision, so all is not lost in that regard.
gregoryfromcali wrote:
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| So why would a student want to study the Callan method and then go back to English File only re-learn everything again? |
It only takes about a year to complete the Callan method. The students will learn several times as much in that year as they will learn anywhere else. Why go back and study more? Because they've only been studying English for a year! Of course they don't speak perfect English. As I have said, Callan method provides a very solid basis in conversational English, but yes, plenty of further study will be necessary.
gregoryfromcali wrote:
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| (To be honest it sounds like you were impatient when your students were "stuck" which to me, means you probably weren't really listening to your students the way you would listen to a friend when your friends speak. When I teach I now usually listen to the students as if we were having a real conversation with adults anyway . Although it can be a challenge for the teacher, the students know when the teacher is actually interested in what they have to say or the teacher justs wants to continue with the lesson.) |
Huh. I consider myself a very patient person, and I don't believe that I've ever felt impatient in the classroom. I know that learning foreign languages is not easy, and I have never expressed any amount of frustration with students. The only frustration I occasionally felt was after class when I realized that I could have taught students more with a direct method, because it's so much more efficient and ordered. I understand that people want to learn English, and they spend plenty of money to do so. I am very concerned with helping students, which is why I defend Callan method--even though it can be a bit boring for me sometimes, I stay with it for now because I honestly believe it works. As a Callan teacher, I listen to every single word that is spoken, and correct every single mistake. How could I listen more?! The notion that I "don't listen" to my students is totally wrong, and frankly insulting. I mean, that kinda came out of left field! Actually, although I know that comment was not intended to be malicious, I care so much about my classes, and such a comment is quite offensive to me.
Now, slodziak offered some interesting comments, generally focused around the idea that such a rigid method can be boring. He argued that a more dynamic, varied approach retains the interest of students better than a formulaic one. I would argue that, surprisingly, Callan method is not boring. Rather, the students are constantly paying attention, because it moves SO fast, and each student is called on at random, so they must pay attention. Also, the subject matter is occasionally interesting, but remember that the most interesting thing is that they really are learning a lot. They came to class to learn English, and they are learning tons--that's enough to hold someone's interest. When my girlfriend taught me Polish with Callan method, I hung on every word--it is impossible to daydream. Students aren't even given the opportunity to daydream! I wanted to learn Polish, and I was learning quite a lot, so why would I space out? While I understand why slodziak might suspect Callan method of being boring, from my experience all the students are constantly--I mean constantly--paying attention. In my conversation classes, on the other hand, a few students dominated the conversation while others were hesitant to speak, and still others drew pictures in their notebooks. That will usually be the case. Callan method is perfect for involving all students equally. It truly is an intensive blitzkrieg of English for two hours at a time. It's literally impossible to design a more intensive method, that is, to design a method with more correct English being spoken/class.
slodziak wrote:
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| As a Callan teacher I would feel much happier and more confident in my teaching if I knew I had the respect of my students because of my ability to answer questions satisfactorily and that I was backed up with a good qualification. |
Callan teachers should certainly know the grammar, I agree. One could get away with being an unqualified teacher, but that's not recommended. Still the method checks against poor teachers, and inefficient techniques. It assures the students that they will learn a certain amount within a certain time--in fact, it's the only method I know of which gives students a guarantee that if they don't reach a certain level of English, they will be offered classes for free until they pass an exam. I don't know if most Callan schools still offer this guarantee, but they are supposed to.
slodziak wrote:
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| I am interested, redsoxfan, in how long you have been teaching the Callan method and how long you wish to continue teaching it. Is it something you can see yourself doing for the rest of your career? I am in English teaching for life, I enjoy it and I find it very rewarding. Without the chance of gaining more knowledge and having qualification goals in front of me I would feel much less inclined to feel satisfied with what I was doing. Do you feel the same? |
I've taught Callan for a year, and I'm doing it again this year. I would personally go crazy if I taught it for several more years. For the rest of my career? No way! While I openly defend the method--perhaps even promote it--it's just not stimulating enough for the teacher to justify years and years of teaching under the method. Rather, I will continue to develop my teaching skills, and I will retain many ideas from Callan. I do feel satisfied teaching Callan because it clearly works. But from a purely selfish standpoint, no, a teacher shouldn't do it for more than a few years. You might well be bored teaching Callan. But I don't think a teaching method should be ultimately judged on the grounds of what is most interesting to us as teachers. Just because I'm defending the method doesn't mean I'm suggesting you make a career out of it!
Thanks for your comments folks. I think some good points have been raised. I still stand by my central argument: Beginning students should complete the method--about a year. After that, they will know a shocking amount of English, and from that point, they should continue their studies with more varied techniques. If students did this, they would save years of wasted time. |
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gregoryfromcali

Joined: 25 Feb 2005 Posts: 1207 Location: People's Republic of Shanghai
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Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 4:32 am Post subject: |
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| What level are your students? |
I have used the communicative method to teach all levels and all ages for the past three years. This includes early learners, children, teenagers, university students and business Enlgish.
I have taught privately and classes with up to 80 students, remember I'm in China now a country with 1.3 billion.
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| Actually, although I know that comment was not intended to be malicious, I care so much about my classes, and such a comment is quite offensive to me. |
Listen you knew you were going to get roasted on this thread, so don't take it personally. Yes teachers often attack the Callan method, but it's not just about ego, it's because we don't agree with its principles. I wasn't criticizing you about whether or not you listen to your students but when you say stuff like this I have to wonder....
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| Also, the reason that Callan students usually learn faster is that there is no wasted time--and you can only have no wasted time--not even 15 seconds a class--when you have a rigid method that is planned out precisely. Otherwise, there is so much time wasted. When I taught traditional methods last year, I was so frustrated because I knew that the amount of English--that is, words/minute--being spoken was a small fraction of what it should be. |
You talk about your students as if they're computers that will soak up and remember every word spoken in class. They're not machines they're people. Why shouldn't people be able to have an open conversation and ocassionally make pauses?
I would personally be annoyed taking the Callan method because the teacher simply listens for mistakes not content. What's the point in that?
If a Polish girl said, "I loves you." Would you stop her and correct her?
No you would simply understand that her English is not perfect. I don't believe in correcting grammar mistakes everytime a student opens their mouth. Because as Micheal Lewis puts it, correct grammar is ultimately icing on the cake and as a student progresses they will become more and more aware of their mistakes and correct themselves.
I teach my students that it is okay to make mistakes and that's all apart of learning a new language.
How would you feel if everytime you made a mistake in Polish some random Pole would walk up to you and correct you? Personally I'd leave the country. (Who knows maybe that is why I left because of all those cases.)
I think listening for students mistakes and stopping the class to correct them is a waste of time.
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| I still don't think students learn as much at, let's say, a pre-intermediate level by having conversation classes. I don't think they are capable of having a conversation, and they would do better to learn grammar and vocab. |
This I think is where our main disagreement is. I believe that all levels are capable of conversation. The conversation can be as simple as;
"What is this?" "Aaaa...It's dog." The teacher then says, "Yes, it's a dog."
"What color is it?" "Is brown." The teacher, "Yes, it is brown."
"Do you like it?" "Yes." The teacher, "So do I."
"Why do you like?" "I like dogs."
This is a conversation I had this morning with a 6 year old. And it is what language is all about. Communication. Not about correcting every mistake directly or parroting other people.
I don't see how walking up to people saying, "Is the Cold War over?" "Is the Cold War over?" "Is the Cold War Over?" and then "Is it snowing outside?" "Is it snowing outside?" "Is it snowing outside?"
is ever an example of something that happens in real life.
Can your students ask you a question? Can your students ever express what happened to them this past weekend openly and freely? Or would this be seen as a waste of time too?
Can your students ask you why you choose to live in your city? Or would Callan turn in his grave?
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| But I don't think a teaching method should be ultimately judged on the grounds of what is most interesting to us as teachers. Just because I'm defending the method doesn't mean I'm suggesting you make a career out of it! |
Yes but the problem is a lot of other schools will not want a teacher who has taught at a Callan school therefore if one wouldn't want to make a career of it and it could hurt someone's career if they really want to be teaching the communicative method then what is the point?
I realize it may sound like I am attacking you, but I'm not. We can agree to disagree. If you're satisified with your work that's fine. But to be honest I can't understand how any teacher who is well trained and understands the Communicative method, or would like to, would want to teach the Callan method. |
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gregoryfromcali

Joined: 25 Feb 2005 Posts: 1207 Location: People's Republic of Shanghai
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Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| By the way if you read my reply this morning I've edited my post since then. |
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redsoxfan
Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 178 Location: Dystopia
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Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:16 am Post subject: |
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This posting is a response to the thoughts of gregoryfromcali:
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How would you feel if everytime you made a mistake in Polish some random Pole would walk up to you and correct you? Personally I'd leave the country. (Who knows maybe that is why I left because of all those cases.)
I think listening for students mistakes and stopping the class to correct them is a waste of time. |
First of all, thanks for your comments. They are well thought out, and are certainly not the knee-jerk reactions to Callan that I often hear. Also, I don't think you are attacking me, don't worry
There is a huge difference between correcting someone on the street, and teaching English in a classroom. I never correct people when they make a mistake outside of the classroom, unless they specifically ask me to. But if I took a course in Polish and the teacher didn't correct my mistakes, I would probably quit. I can already speak Polish poorly and incorrectly! Why would I pay someone to listen to me yammer on as I butcher their language? Just to communicate? If I only wanted to communicate, I'd just speak English. I want to communicate in Polish rather well, and to do so, I want to learn the grammar and vocab as quickly and efficiently as possible. I feel that if the teacher corrects the student enough, the student will eventually stop making the same mistakes. I used to teach simply by communication and conversation, and I soon realized that unless I constantly correct students, they will continue to make the same mistakes. This is not rudeness on the part of the teacher, in my opinion.
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This I think is where our main disagreement is. I believe that all levels are capable of conversation. The conversation can be as simple as;
"What is this?" "Aaaa...It's dog." The teacher then says, "Yes, it's a dog."
"What color is it?" "Is brown." The teacher, "Yes, it is brown."
"Do you like it?" "Yes." The teacher, "So do I."
"Why do you like?" "I like dogs."
This is a conversation I had this morning with a 6 year old. And it is what language is all about. Communication. Not about correcting every mistake directly or parroting other people.
I don't see how walking up to people saying, "Is the Cold War over?" "Is the Cold War over?" "Is the Cold War Over?" and then "Is it snowing outside?" "Is it snowing outside?" "Is it snowing outside?"
is ever an example of something that happens in life.
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The conversation with a 6-year-old is basically the Callan method. You have just described the first stage of the method.
I don't understand why asking, "Is the Cold War over?" or "Is it snowing outside?" is irrelevant. With Callan method, the teacher would teach "snow" as a new word, and say "SNOW, SNOW--snow means 'padac snieg'". "Is it snowing outside?" That seems perfectly natural to me.
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Can your students ask you a question? Can your students ever express what happened to them this past weekend openly and freely? Or would this be seen as a waste of time too?
Can your students ask you why you choose to live in your city? Or would Callan turn in his grave?
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Students are always free to ask questions about the material. Additionally, they ask each other open-ended questions a few times during the class. Many Callan questions are open-ended, so yes, quite often the students are expected to explain what they did last weekend, or where they recommend I go for a holiday, and why. "Why?" is a common follow-up question, especially in the later stages. So, the method is not quite as rigid as it may seem. Callan would indeed probably turn in his grave if students started speaking on any topic they chose, because they don't speak English well enough to have a good conversation. Please remember that the method is terrible for people who speak English well--it's boring and irrelevant. This is a method that should place a student at an intermediate level of English.
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| You talk about your students as if they're computers that will soak up and remember every word spoken in class. |
The Callan method is impersonal. It's kinda cold really. The teachers are interchangeable, so we have different classes every day. Thus, it takes quite a while to learn students' names. They might not know mine, I dunno. I refuse to walk into a classroom and begin speaking like I'm just a machine; I always say hello and a few words. Callan would probably crack me on the jaw for chatting, because it's a waste of time. It's true that this is inefficient, but barely so, thus I ignore his rantings in favor of being a human being. But his point is well taken--if I stand there making jokes with students for five minutes a class, that's 10% of the time. Most students will not take part in such conversation because they're shy, or annoyed that they're learning nothing new, which is what they pay for. That 10% of class could be better spent learning several new words, using them in context, and revising grammar. I don't think of my students as computers. I just understand that they signed up for an intensive method because they believe that it works, and they're entitled to a teacher who follows the method. Again, it may appear that the method is robotic and the students and teacher are just machines, but it's really not true. I would've thought the same as you, had I not studied Polish with Callan. You really are thinking the whole time, and if I sputtered out answers without so much passion, it wa;s only because my mind was racing. That's what's funny about the method: it appears dull sometimes, but students' minds are churning a mile a minute.
I think the crux of our disagreement is this: I would sacrifice an entertaining class for an efficient one, until students speak English at a communicative level. Why? Because if pre-intermediate students, who already have trouble forming English sentences, want to speak about capital punishment, they would have a much more informative discussion in Polish. On the other hand, if they want to discuss this topic in English, they should learn the language as quickly as possible; then they would have a much more involved discussion, and they could do so with little effort. Some weaker students might prefer your method, because it has more potential to be funny, and it is frankly less grueling for the students. (Callan method is FAST and INTENSE!) Likewise, I chose to study philosophy in college, instead of something that is useful. Now I understand the many schools of thought which explain why life is meaningless Great! I'm not saying your method is not useful--it can be quite useful. (Just not as useful as mine And I fully believe in, and have used, your method for better students.) (Rather, I just wanted to take a poke at our liberal education systems which give students lots of room for choice, even when they don't know what to choose.)
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Yes but the problem is a lot of other schools will not want a teacher who has taught at a Callan school therefore if one wouldn't want to make a career of it and it could hurt someone's carrer if they really want to be teaching the communicative method then what is the point?
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Well, I don't know if that's true. I turned down a handful of job offers this year, even though I had Callan smeared all over my CV. You might be right that some schools hate the method. I disagree with them, and if they don't want to hire me, that's their choice. But I've had no problem finding teaching hours at good schools here. I have experience with the communicative method, exam prep, etc. so I don't see why the fact that I have taught with Callan should be a problem.
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| If you're satisified with your work that's fine. But to be honest I can't understand how any teacher who is well trained and understands the Communicative method, or would like to, would want to teach the Callan method. |
First, because I believe in it. That's satisfying in itself, and it makes up, to some extent, for the fact that it is not entirely stimulating for a Native Speaker. Also, it's partly practical for me. The method requires essentially no prep time, so I really do work 25 hours/week, not 40. So I can read more books and study Polish and drink beer. My school said that they really needed me for 25 hours/week, so I was not able to take other classes. I wish I were, because it's a welcome break from the same method. Ideally, I'd teach Callan for 18 hours/week, and I'd teach conversation/communicative method classes for 8 hours. But oh well. I don't get to teach people who speak English very well--intermediate at best--and I miss that a bit. I'll strongarm the school a little better next year.  |
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biffinbridge
Joined: 05 May 2003 Posts: 701 Location: Frank's Wild Years
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 12:57 pm Post subject: Callan/Berlitz |
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Cue,reponse,reward=A.L.M..
Panned by everyone in modern T.E.F.L...............used mainly in the U.S. military these days.I mean the teachers don't even need any qualifications.Anyone can read a scripted lesson. |
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redsoxfan
Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 178 Location: Dystopia
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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Cue,reponse,reward=A.L.M..
Panned by everyone in modern T.E.F.L...............used mainly in the U.S. military these days.I mean the teachers don't even need any qualifications.Anyone can read a scripted lesson. |
Maybe if the military uses the method, it works. Obviously, such an institution, which is so focused on efficiency, would naturally search out the most effective way to teach a language. If the US military, with its billions and billions of dollars, has decided that Callan method is the most effective method, such a decision was probably arrived at after millions of dollars of research. The military probably decided that it makes no sense to spend several years teaching people when they could learn the same material in a year. Are you rejecting the method because you don't like the military? If so, you are committing the "strawman fallacy," which means that you are attacking something else besides the argument at hand. (Actually, the Callan method is the only method I know of which is supported by research and studies, and which offers a written guarantee to its students that they will pass a standardized exam in 1/4 of the normal time.)
Yes, the teachers don't need qualifications beyond that of speaking Standard English well. How is this an argument against the method? You have merely restated the same argument that I pre-empted in a previous posting--that Callan method should be rejected because it is perhaps not as interesting for the teacher. I would argue that this is hardly relevant, as I am paid relatively well to teach English, and I should bear in mind the best interests of the students, first and foremost. If "qualifications" lead teachers to reject the method out of hand because they think that they are so creative, well, I would fault the teachers for that, and suggest that perhaps they don't know as much about teaching as they thought. If it is simply a matter of ego, it is wrong to place one's ego above the interests of the students. Their methods are more appropriate for individuals already quite comfortable with English, in my opinion.
Second, to be a good Callan teacher, one must have a presence in the classroom, and one must be a skilled public speaker. This is important, because it better holds the attention of the students. More than a few English teachers are socially awkward (they are in Poland because they can't get a decent girl in their native countries) and I would suspect that such people lack the rhetorical skills to be effective Callan teachers. This is not meant to be an attack on English teachers, as most of us are nice people, but it is true, so I said it. So, again, it takes more than simply reading from a book to be a good Callan teacher. (Although, in fairness, it doesn't take much more.)
Third, it is true, in a certain sense, that "anyone can read from a script." But, do you mean to reject the very idea of a method? Shouldn't a method be organized? If a method is haphazard and arbitrary, it is hardly a method. Learning English is a skill, rather than an academic subject, and I fail to see why methods are useless in teaching skills.
Finally, it is not true that Callan method is rejected by the TEFL world at large. Many people who have taught it believe in it. Most people who reject it have never taught it. If one has never taught the method and thus seen the rapid learning process at work, I'm not sure one can be so dismissive.
PS. I'm not familiar with the Berlitz method, although I understand that it is some sort of direct method. I cannot comment on this method because I know nothing about it, but it is not the same as Callan method, and thus should be evaluated on its own merits. |
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Mark Loyd
Joined: 13 Sep 2005 Posts: 517
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| You might change your mind if you had to teach the American Language Course from Defence Language Istitute, Still in use in some Gulf countries. |
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Alex Shulgin
Joined: 20 Jul 2003 Posts: 553
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| redsoxfan wrote: |
| Actually, the Callan method is the only method I know of which is supported by research and studies, and which offers a written guarantee to its students that they will pass a standardized exam in 1/4 of the normal time. |
I'd love to see that research. I could do with a laugh.
Please also post the exact 'guarantee' which Callan offers.
| redsoxfan wrote: |
| Second, to be a good Callan teacher, one must have a presence in the classroom, and one must be a skilled public speaker. This is important, because it better holds the attention of the students. �� So, again, it takes more than simply reading from a book to be a good Callan teacher. (Although, in fairness, it doesn't take much more.) :wink: |
Interesting that you don't mention anything at about having knowledge of grammar to be a good Callan teacher. Also interesting that you state it doesn�t take much more than reading from a book to be a good Callan teacher but go on to say that one also needs to have rhetorical skills and be a skilled public speaker. You don�t think that being a skilled public speaker with rhetorical skills is much more than being able to read from a book?
| redsoxfan wrote: |
| Third, it is true, in a certain sense, that "anyone can read from a script." But, do you mean to reject the very idea of a method? Shouldn't a method be organized? If a method is haphazard and arbitrary, it is hardly a method. Learning English is a skill, rather than an academic subject, and I fail to see why methods are useless in teaching skills. |
Methods are only useful if they work for the student. When they don�t work they should not be used. Unless of course that method has to be used because that is the only method the school approves. In which case the student is wasting their money. Although in order to see that a method is not working one would need to know something about teaching and that, according to you, is not needed to be a good Callan teacher. It certainly isn�t one of the skills which you listed.
| redsoxfan wrote: |
| Finally, it is not true that Callan method is rejected by the TEFL world at large. Many people who have taught it believe in it. Most people who reject it have never taught it. If one has never taught the method and thus seen the rapid learning process at work, I'm not sure one can be so dismissive. |
It is certainly rejected by virtually the entire TEFL world which have some basic training in linguistics and a background in TEFL.
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| More than a few English teachers are socially awkward (they are in Poland because they can't get a decent girl in their native countries) and I would suspect that such people lack the rhetorical skills to be effective Callan teachers. This is not meant to be an attack on English teachers, as most of us are nice people, but it is true, so I said it. |
Nice attack on your fellow teachers, really aided the debate. I love the way that you see teachers who are not fit to be Callan teachers while those of us who have some vague clue about teaching and have been doing it for longer than 6 months would describe the human tape recorders who work at Callan as not being fit to be called teachers. |
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redsoxfan
Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 178 Location: Dystopia
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Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 9:27 am Post subject: |
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Alex Shulgin wrote:
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I'd love to see that research. I could do with a laugh.
Please also post the exact 'guarantee' which Callan offers.
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callan.co.uk
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| Methods are only useful if they work for the student. When they don�t work they should not be used. Unless of course that method has to be used because that is the only method the school approves. In which case the student is wasting their money. |
Wasting their money? Students choose to study by a certain method, so I don't see why a school offering only one method confines a student. Students are free to go to other schools if they are not satisfied. As I believe that the Callan method will place most students at an intermediate level of English in a fraction of the normal time, it stands to reason that the student saves a great deal of money, as well as time, by studying with such a method. After studying for a year or so, the method is finished, so naturally a student will switch to a different course, often an FCE prep course. I have taught FCE prep courses, incidentally, and from my experience, most students who have completed the Callan method are at the same level as other students who have been studying for perhaps four years.
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| Although in order to see that a method is not working one would need to know something about teaching and that, according to you, is not needed to be a good Callan teacher. It certainly isn�t one of the skills which you listed. |
I suppose that a few Callan teachers have no experience with other methods, but almost all of us do. Most teach at other schools as well, and I imagine that a more open, communicative method is used. Certainly one should understand English grammar, and every Callan teacher I have met does. If a student has a particular grammar question, they ask me and I explain it. I always ask students if they understand a grammar point after I teach it, and if there is still some confusion, I give a further explanation. For instance, there is invariably confusion when learning conditionals, so I simply stop using the method and explain.
It is quite easy to see that the method usually works, because when faced with an open-ended question, the vast majority of students understand and are able to answer the question with relative ease. Mind you, they have been studying English for an average of 4-8 months. I can speak freely to such students, provided that I choose my words with some care, and they understand everything I say. On the other hand, I have taught students who have been studying English for two or three years, who understand almost no English. I have found myself speaking Polish to them, and my Polish is not even very good.
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| Nice attack on your fellow teachers, really aided the debate. I love the way that you see teachers who are not fit to be Callan teachers while those of us who have some vague clue about teaching and have been doing it for longer than 6 months would describe the human tape recorders who work at Callan as not being fit to be called teachers. |
As I said, I made no attack on my "fellow teachers," but rather I simply pointed out that one must have an animated presence to be an effective Callan teacher. Perhaps I could've chosen my words better. You certainly could have. And thanks for the incorrect personal attack, which was based on nothing. There is absolutely no reason why those who teach Callan cannot also teach communicative lessons. I think I am quite effective at both, my students certainly think so, but I'm not going to sit here and promote my teaching abilities over the Internet. |
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biffinbridge
Joined: 05 May 2003 Posts: 701 Location: Frank's Wild Years
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Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:04 pm Post subject: Right....here we go. |
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As my father was a fighter pilot,my brother in a tank regiment and my brother- in- law a Royal Marine ,I really fail to see how I can be accused of being 'against the military.'.....so here we go.
I suggest to any Callan teacher that you read Harmer's 'The Practice of English Language Teaching' if you want a quick overview of the numerous, different approaches,methods and techniques that one can use in the E.L.T. classroom.
Direct approaches based on repetition have long been shunned by just about every serious academic in the E.F.L.. world.These days teachers are more concerned with more learner centred teaching approches/techniques like Guided Discovery and Task Based Learning....finely tuned language input has been replaced by rough tuning although it must be said that any lesson involving new language input will inevitably include a stage that concentrates on accuracy.How can you encourage learner independence when the lesson is completely reliant on a parrot up front?
Callan,like Berlitz sell a package and we all know that it's just bull**** marketing without any real academic content.Compare a book like Cutting Edge to a book like Streamline Departures and you'll see why the cue response method has been discarded by any school that requires its teachers to have qualifications.
Nuff said. |
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