Job Discussion Forums

[Keath]

Don't worry Kevin,

One day, when China rules the world and you're teaching Chinese in America you can teach our young students how to grow up to be proper foreign teachers.

You're English is suspiciously good, to the point I might even think you were another foreign teacher posing as a Chinese student.

Your points are valid, can I suggest that you gather a bunch of your peers and invite them to join Daves ESL, There are many who would be interested to hear the valid opinions of your peers on these issues.

You're helping to educate other foreign teachers who are seeking job positions, keep up your postings and reply to some of the discussions.


Keith
www.JourneyEast.org

[Kurochan]

[sock]

Great... Now this forum is being invaded by students? One of the last places to totally escape them and talk about them, and they show up here, and whine about how mean foreign teachers are.

Kevin, if you learn any one thing from your foreign teachers, learn this: the world does not revolve around you. Many foreign teachers have hundreds of students, and we get asked these questions hundreds of times. I asked my students in every class if they had any questions for me on the first day of school, I answered the questions, and I still get the same questions every day.

I can't speak for the other foreign teachers on this board, but I know that if one of MY students who makes a reasonable effort in class comes up to me on the weekend or outside of school, I will entertain them for a limited time IF (and only if) they attempt to communicate with me in an appropriate level of English. I am not saying that I won't talk to you if your English isn't perfect, but what I am trying to say is that if you have been studying English for years and years, and ask me if I like Chinese food or if I like basketball, I won't answer. If you are a first or second grader, and you want to know if I like ping pong or if I like the color blue, than I will answer you.

The two most frustrating things for me as a teacher is if a student misbehaves in class (or just doesn't pay attention in class) and then sees the teacher outside of class and wants a 'special lesson'; and if a student asks questions that aren't age appropriate or talks just to hear themself talk.

[Midlothian Mapleheart]

Kevin,

Not everything your teachers taught you was wrong. It's just that they often don't understand the cultural and social contexts for using language.

You can try some alternate phrases/questions.

Do you like Chinese food?
There is nothing wrong with this question. It's just that, for FTs in China, it seems that every Chinese person asks this question, so they get tired of answering it.
Try, "What is your favourite Chinese food?"

Can I be your friend?
This is a ridiculous question in any language. Friendship is based on mutal understanding and shared interests. It is not established through a question and will make the person to whom it is addressed suspicious.
Try, "Would you like to get together sometime and (go for a walk, have dinner, have a drink, hang out, play tennis, etc.)

Can I ask you a question?
This is a perfectly valid question, although by asking this question you have already asked a question.
Try just asking the question.

Don't ask:
How old are you?
Are you married?
How much do you earn?
How much does that ______ cost?


Middy

[Mideatoo]

[Roger]

Mideatoo,

are you hinting at your being a Chinese person "studying English"?
Just curious - because of the quality both of your arguments and your language.
About the same level I see in Chinese primary schools.

[greenmountain]

Hi Kevin, nice post.

I wouldn't take what people say on this board too seriously. Everybody gets frustrated from time to time, especially when living in a foreign country. This board offers a place to let off some steam.
Some of the negative comments you read here maybe from somebody just having a bad day. Bad days can stretch out over a week or more while in a foreign country, however bad days do end.
I think my bad days average about 3 a week, and my good days about 5. Maybe it's all that instant coffee I'm drinking. I should be drinking tea, or tea and beer. Good levels of goodness and badness.

Students ask me the same questions all the time, but it's a trivial problem for me. It's easier to live in a foreign country where people want to talk to you, than in a country where people totaly ignore you.

[frigginhippie]

Dear Kevin,

I'm glad too see a Chinese student post on this board and offer his viewpoint on ESL classes. I'm impressed by your carefully worded and well written post. You also discovered how to become a posting member on this 'private' messageboard. I find it hard to believe that with your mastery of the English language, you missed the original intent of the topic Unwelcome Questions. I believe it was quite clear that the goal was to HELP our students to improve their relations with native English speakers.
No one likes repeating the same answers, and I imagine you would get tired of asking the same questions to every English speaker you meet. As Roger said, what does it matter if someone likes/dislikes Chinese food? This is not a conversation, it is a yes/no question. Hopefully, with your help and the help of the teachers on this board, we can improve our students' English conversation skills, create meaningful communication, and interest between cultures.
We often post our complaints in anger. This is true. We all experience the same highs and lows of teaching in China, and on this website we share those experiences. It's the only community many of us have that will accept BOTH our positive and negative opinions regarding ESL. We often post looking for comfort, assistance, information, and understanding. We post for humor, for anger, for fear, and for pride. The one thing you can count on at Dave's ESL Cafe is that we will post our TRUE thoughts - uncensored by ourselves or others. If you want to know the truth, all you have to do is ask. If you don't, then I'm sorry you have read what you did, and I apologize for altering your image of the FT. Best of luck in all your studies. And Happy Halloween
Sincerely,
-fh

[Super Mario]

Sock wrote:

[Mideatoo]

[Mideatoo]

[rogerejones]

kevinchen:

I am very glad to find that students are reading this site, and that you took the initiative to speak up.

The insensitivity of some teachers' comments on this site is appalling. I too read the lists of "irritating" or grammatically incorrect questions that teachers hear, and thought them very inappropriate. HELLO, our students are actually trying to talk to us and to communicate and to negotiate meaning. Isn't that what language is? Exactly what are your goals for your students if you are going to discourage them from speaking to you? Since when do teachers complain that their students are trying to be friendly, and to try out phrases and questions that show their growth as English speakers?

Unless you allow yourself to make mistakes, you will never learn. When I come to China to teach English, and I enroll in a class to learn Chinese, will my chinese teacher talk about the "stupid" questions and comments I say to him or her simply because I am not fluent? I hope not.

kevinchen, do not be discouraged. Continue talking to your teachers. You can talk to me or email me whenever you want to. Keep up the good work.

Roger (a future teacher in China)

[Super Mario]

Mideatoo wrote:

[Starry Night]

[rogerejones]

My comments were concerned with English LEARNERS. Students who are asking their teachers conversational questions are not negotiating contracts with multunational companies.

Roger