Job Discussion Forums

[Keath]

Mideatoo:

You could Jibba Jabba all day long in tongues for all I care.. you are.. How to say?

HOT!

[Volodiya]

vikdk wrote:

[Super Mario]

rogerejones wrote:

[tofuman]

Kevin,

On the off chance that you are a Chinese English student, I'm going to explain myself since you mentioned my posts specifically as a cause of offense. You think I'm "mean" because I answer in gibberish when someone asks me where I am from. I could just say "It's none of your F'ing business where I am from." I normally do not use profanity, but it would be a suitable response when a complete stranger walks up to me, interrupts a conversation I am having with friends and says, "Where are you from?" You have managed to make my friends uncomfortable, annoy me, violate my social boundaries, exhibit bad manners and identify yourself as an insensitive idiot with just four words. All because you are too cheap to pay for English lessons at one of the many schools around that offer them, or too lazy to go to an English corner. Why bother when you can just glom onto any foreigner that you happen to chance upon?

Incidentally, I'm not a teacher by training. I'm here primarily because I enjoy martial arts, a discipline where respect of others is highly valued. Obviously you have no respect for me if you think that you, a total stranger, without even introducing yourself, can approach me on the street and begin an interrogation. Unless you are a policeman in uniform or an intelligence operative with identification, don't do it.

Teachers teach in classrooms. If I'm not in the classroom and you are not a registered student, why do you think that I want to help you learn English? I'm not on duty as an English teacher 24/7. Really, I don't care if you ever learn to speak English. That's why I'm studying Chinese, so I can talk in their own language to people who interest me.

By the way, I have given hundreds of hours to my community in time spent at different English corners. I was the only foreigner to regularly frequent two different ones over the course of nearly two years, every week. There are many foreigners in my city. Few, very few, ever attend English corners, and even fewer attend on a regular basis.

But apparently that isn't enough for you. I teach classes at a university and give my time freely at English corners, yet you still insist that unless I welcome your intrusion into my private and personal life, I am "mean."

Try this. Go to the foreign teacher's dorm at a university and randomly knock on a door. Invite yourself in and begin asking them the same questions that a nine year old child asks at the English corner. You do realize, of course, that many university students and adults have oral English skills comparable to 9 year old Chinese children.

See how long your wonderful, benevolent, gracious, non-mean teachers tolerate you in their home. Ask them why they don't go to the English corner but spend their time at home watching English language dvds that they bought on a corner for six Rmb.

And after you have the answer to those questions, come and look me up at the English corner and ask me what I think about their responses. But when you see me, in taiji clothes, carrying a sword, walking down the street with friends, some also in taiji clothes with swords, laughing and [trying to talk] in Chinese, don't walk up to me, stick your face in mine, and ask "Where are you from?"

[Mideatoo]

[MoggIntellect]

One of my co-workers from last year has been working in China as a "foreign expert" with no university degree and no teacher training, yet still got position after position in universities, including Lanzhou University, number thirty something on "the list", and Shehezi University, arguably the best uni in Xinjiang. Another co-worker of mine from last year has a BA and an MA in ESL, and was hired by Qinhua for I think about 4000 per month, a little short of 20,000. I think she counts as a qualified teacher yet her salary is still not high. Someone is smoking cheap crack if they think 20-40Gs can be had by a foreign teacher... I think those salaries are reserved for Party members who are good at "educational management" (read embezzlement).

[Rabid]

[frigginhippie]

[vikdk]

sorry kevinchen - looks like your post has opened a can of worms - as you can see nobody really wants to discuss the real points of this topic - most of the posters have retreated back to the usuall boring bastions of language rules and work regulations.

you see kevin the sorry state of affairs is that many of these guys have hard time here - so they try to find a scapegoat - could be those very rules or regulations - or (they don't like to talk to much about this with outsiders) you students. Ranting on about this kind of stuff makes them feel better and covers up their own Inefficiencies - you see lots of them arn't very good teachers, and certainly wouldn't get a job teaching in their own countries - but can do it here because some misguded bores make it so easy for them by explaing all those stupid rules and regulation in the teeniest weeniest detail, so that any jack dick or harry can be a teacher here.

this thread makes me want to say - when the going gets tough - the weak start whining - but better not say that since there's a certain clique here - the scott of the artic brigade - who think the conditions here are to be tollerated even enjoyed, and not for us to try and change - so I'll shut up -- since I don't want to supposr their perverted little cause!

[Roger]

Yes, vikdk, teaching in China is far more challenging than is generally acknowledged here; it is tough because we are being taken advantage of, and this by foreigners in their own country who ought to learn first of all how to teach English. But no, they won't; they use us to boost their cashflow (universities are profit centers now). English is a cash cow. And foreign faces are convenient cattle to be abused for the purpose of generating that profit that other subjects cannot guarantee.

If the Chinese side was serious they would radically change their teaching and the instruction their English teachers get at normal schools; we would be mainly deployed at normal schools, not in primary schools and universities and adult training centres.

BUt is Kevin CHen a bona fide student? I don't believe that. It is sooo easy in CHina to proclaim to be one thing, and then to hide one's own true identity. This is, after all, the country that has turned the vice of pirate-copying and plagiarising into a virtue. Kevin didn't "accidentally" find us, he sought us out. The reason is: why?

Maybe he is a CHinese English "teacher".

[JimmyJam]

Well, Kevin.. Welcome to the other side!!! I often hear students say, every coin has two sides.. I think it's about time that you be exposed to another reality that foreigners face in China... experiences which are equally valid and real...

Indeed, the Job Discussion Forums here can be an ideal locus of catharsis.. and the story goes on and on and on....

To have a wholistic understanding of this issue of BEING MEAN, it would be best not to be foolhardy in terms of judgement.. Why not ask WHO SHAPED THESE "MEAN" INDIVIDUALS? Along this process, you will find some further enlightenment... only then can I GanBei more with you...

[bdawg]

[bdawg]

[erinyes]

My hand is up too... I meat SAFEA standards, and I am registered to teach in my home country as welllllllll... but who cares?

Let me teach you a little bit about supply and demand shall I? The standards put forward by the government are simply impossible to enforce, and besides � China wants so many FT, they simply will never get enough if they stick to that rule. Besides, law in China is different to law in other countries. I mean, you can�t even find out what the law is most of the time. No one really knows what the hell is going on, so how can they strictly enforce anything? Well � in many places, they just don�t. Guandong province is a great example.

and I think Mideatoo is a fool for suggesting that you can, or should expect to make 20 to 40K (per month) in a country where the local teachers make 1.5 to 3K per month.

Where the hell are you working?

Even most international schools - like schools that teach the Australian, American, Canadian syllabus to foreign students don't even pay that much. Eg. I have seen jobs for as low as 10k in these schools, up to 15 or 18k. Mideatoo you are a crazy, obviously uninformed person. And if you are earning 20 to 40K please tell us all where you�re getting it.

By the way - what are YOUR qualifications?

[Mark Beckman]