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7969 · Joined: 26 Mar 2003 Posts: 5782 Location: Coastal Guangdong

if any of you have ever taken any kind of teacher training, you'll know that the teacher in an oral english class should speak approx. 20% of the time with the other 80% of the time taken up by students speaking.

in the typical chinese classroom, middle school or university/college, the classes vary from 40 students to about 120 (in my experience). has anyone in this type of esl setting ever achieved a ratio anywhere close to this? i'm having a debate with someone and they consider that a teacher not achieving this ratio is a failure.

i'd like to hear some opinions on this.....

7969

andyscott84 · Joined: 02 Nov 2005 Posts: 115

One three semesters this is how I would teach. The class goes for 45 minutes and I would speak for about 15 minutes all together. For the remainder of the class that was for the students to give speeches, debates, discussions and presentations. In my opinion this worked fairly well, but the Chinese teachers said I was speaking too little. So now I'm forced to speak about 35 - 45 minutes per class. Which is a waste of time for them. I make it up by giving them one full discussion class every three weeks. Seems to work all right.

7969 · Joined: 26 Mar 2003 Posts: 5782 Location: Coastal Guangdong

andy, 35-45 minutes out of how many? can you give me a percentage of how much you speak vs the students?

tw · Joined: 04 Jun 2005 Posts: 3898

Impossible for me. I have classes ranging from 38 to 47 students. The textbook is of the same format as text books taught by FT's in private language schools so it is more than just an oral English etxt book, and I have to do quite a bit of explaining and quick grammar lessons. Also, most students have VERY poor English background as they have only been learning English for a year, while others are just plain unmotivated. In my classes I have 1/3 who I can use the 20-80 (or 80-20) method, while others would be a complete reversal. A student asked me to give his classmates more opportunities to speak. I told him that when I did give them the opportunities, everybody would just sit there silently. Rolling Eyes

andyscott84 · Joined: 02 Nov 2005 Posts: 115

Sure, 35-45 minutes out of 45 minutes. Which would mean I at least speak about 80-100% of the class giving the students 0-20% of the class. And as I said I give them one discussion class every three weeks where they speak 95% of the time. According to that scale you mentioned that would mean I am a failure. Oh well, the other teachers and students are happy at least.

7969 · Joined: 26 Mar 2003 Posts: 5782 Location: Coastal Guangdong

note too that i never achieve this ratio either. i would also be a failure. i just want to see what percentage of people here on eslcafe (china branch) achieve this so-called "ideal" ratio.

7969

Revenant · Mod Team Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 1109

hengyangdave · Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 12:39 pm Post subject:

i get a bout a 80-29 in my favour....the kids just wouldnt let the 20-80 work!

Volodiya · Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 12:43 pm Post subject:

Don't sweat it, unless you're doing all the talking. If you confine yourself to giving instructions and making a few comments to the class a a whole, this ideal is easy to hit; but, what if your students need some modeling of the language, as part of the process? Your speaking time will be greater, as a result.

AndyScott wrote:

hengyangdave · Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:09 pm Post subject:

if the students cant/dont feel they can do this?

Jizzo T. Clown · Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 10:37 pm Post subject:

"Teacher Silence" can be a great motivator. I knew one guy who would go into his upper-intermediate class and not say a word. He'd let his students initiate conversation. Guess I don't have the cajones for that, but I have gotten more patient with my wait - time.

KarenB · Joined: 20 Sep 2005 Posts: 227 Location: Hainan

I think I finally hit the 80-20% ratio a couple years ago when I was 8 months pregnant and had zero energy after climbing 6 flights of stairs to get to a non-ac class in the Hainan tropical heat. I think I probably spoke no more than 10 minutes in each 45 minute class. I'd start off with teaching them a song, going over the words and pronunciation, then playing the tape and letting them sing along while I sat and fanned myself, then proceeded to the dialog in the text, which I modeled for them, then let them practice with their seat partner while I sat and fanned myself, and then the rest of the class was discussion or group activities from the book, and I basically let them read the directions and do whatever it was they were supposed to do (while I sat and fanned myself).

Anyway, I sat there like a fat non-articulate slug most of the time, while my classes hopefully accomplished some speaking practice.

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

Revenant · Mod Team Joined: 28 Jul 2005 Posts: 1109

towyen · Joined: 04 Nov 2005 Posts: 11

[quote="7969"]if any of you have ever taken any kind of teacher training, you'll know that the teacher in an oral english class should speak approx. 20% of the time with the other 80% of the time taken up by students speaking.

i i'm having a debate with someone and they consider that a teacher not achieving this ratio is a failure.

..........the only failure is the moron who said it and the person you are debating with. My grandfather learned English 100%, by listening to the TV and reading newspapers! Forget the stupid ratio. Be yourself! Every class is different, for you as well as other teachers.