Job Discussion Forums

[Super Mario]

Firstly, Denise, the OP was asking about China. I've actually mentioned 4 cities in 2 posts. I've either lived in them or visited them and have connections there. Japan was never mentioned.
Secondly, posts of the "stay at home to mix with your own kind" type are not giving the OP the information they requested.

[denise]

[Tarka_littleotter]

Why do you want an ex pat scene?? Surely most people go away to experience a new culture and become a part of it. When I go away I live in and amongst the locals and socialise with them. The only time I see other people from England is when I'm at work or when we decide to go for a girls night out.

Why do you want to go to a new and exciting place and immerse yourself in your own culture? Stay at home and teach if that's what's important to you!!

[Henry_Cowell]

The OP is evidently in Asia right now, but not in China. So perhaps she/he could describe the "expat scene" where she/he now is. In what ways is it satisfactory or unsatisfactory? What needs improvement to make it "lively" enough?

[workingnomad]

Thanks for all your responses.

To all the 'stay at home people'. Well I at this time of my life I prefer not to live in England.

Secondly it is possible to be around your own 'type' in a foreign country AND immerse yourself with local culture. You don't have to decide one way or the other.

I figure that most cities in Asia will have opportunities to mix with the locals (which I am doing now in KL and previously in Indonesia). Some cities will not have such a lively expat scene though.

For instance I met some English teachers who said that the expat scene in many of the Indonesian cities was poor and they lived for their weekend escapes to Bali.

When I say 'lively' I mean where a person on their own can join groups of like minded people. I suppose there will always be the 'Irish Pub' where you can meet other folks but I would be looking for a bit more than that.

The Asian countries that would interest me most is Vietnam, China and maybe Thailand.

Earning huge amounts of money is n't that important as I have a steady income already. What is important is that I have a good social life and get to meet lots of people (locals and expats).

Even if I only wanted to mix with foreigners then I don't see why some smart people can only suggest staying at home.

Believe it or not it is easier getting ESL job in Asia than it is in England. Some people prefer Asia to Europe as well!

[Henry_Cowell]

What sorts of things do you enjoy doing in KL?

[zhamr]

Expat scenes in China tend to follow an odd kind of inverse square law: the larger the expat population, the more insular and segregated they tend to become and this fragmentation can make it more difficult to 'break in'. This is a sweeping generalisation, I understand, but we are talking about trends here. Beijing and Shanghai therefore tend to have well segregated country or culture specific scenes as well as some 'melting pots'.

The smaller cities along the eastern coast, Dalian, Qingdao, Hangzhou, Xiamen, Suzhou, Nanjing, etc., have much smaller expat communities that tend to blend together a bit better. There is no 'critical mass' factor to allow separate expat communities to develop to the extent that they exist in Shanghai and Beijing, and this in a sense compels foreigners to hang together a bit more, joined by their 'foreignness'. I have found the smaller expat communities a bit more open and welcoming, but that is just one man's experience.

The cost of living tends to be considerably lower in the smaller cities, particularly accommodation.

I have worked in KL before and enjoyed it. China is certainly a change of pace - far more culturally homogeneous than KL.

[greent]

the expat scene in vietnam is pretty varied and fun, though can be pretty cliquish at times. lots of foreign guys, but not many foreign girls to meet most of the time.

[Gregor]

I'm surprised at you "immersion or stay home" people. It's perfectly legitimate to want to get out of your home country but still want to deal with familiar cultural issues.
I'm like that. I'm perfectly happy living in China, and was perfectly happy in Indonesia, but it was because I like my job, and I like just being a foreigner. I had and have no particular interest in really having a "cultural experience."
Oh, sure, as long as I'm here or there, I'll make a small effort to learn a bit of the language and customs and check out strange, unusual and (to me) surreal aspects of wherever I'm living.
In fact, I like that surreal quality, and that starts to diminish, the more you really understand what's going on. I think that the OP is asking a perfectly legitimate question, and I think it might just be a tad snobbish to expect every expat to be there solely out of a need to fully experience the world.
I've been doing this for a long time, and the last culture I was really, really into was Mexico. That was great. But if I didn't have an expat community of some sort where I have been in the last five years, I wouldn't have enjoyed it and I wouldn't have stayed.

OP - my suggestion is Jakarta. GREAT expat community, from my own experience. I've heard wonderful stories about 'Nam as well, but I'm not sure which cities and I haven't been there myself.

[Cdaniels]

that large cities in China develop insular ex-pat communities in no way surprises me. After all, the Chinese themselves form small insular communities abroad in many countries (Chinatowns)
I think Gregor is exactly right, because I think the reverse should hold true: If someone visits/comes to live in my country, while I would encourage mingling, I would want them to feel comfortable and feel free to spend time with others from their own culture/background who have also come here.
Not to mention for English-speakers there's plenty of cultural exchange between people of different English speaking countries and backgrounds as well.

[Perpetual Traveller]

And let's face it, sometimes after weeks and weeks of immersion it can be a huge relief to be able to speak in your own language for a couple of hours without having to explain each and every little nuance and joke. Other expats can also be a great resource for reading material in your native language and tips and tricks about the area you're living in.

PT

[Gregor]

Cdaniels brings up a very good point.
I am actually VERY GLAD that I can expect to find Chinese enclaves in the U.S. when I get back, for two reasons - one, so my wife doesn't get homesick. Two, so I can continue to practice my Chinese in a native-speaking, real atmosphere.
And looking at it from the point of view of immigrants to our countries (the U.S., anyway) - the VAST majority of them do NOT particularly want to give up their culture and language. Some are cool with it, or become cool with it over time, but I see nothing wrong with them coming LEGALLY into the country and sticking together, keeping their own languages and so on.
My wife doesn't really care about the U.S. culturally speaking. But those of you in China for any amount of time know full well that a 33-year-old woman is over the hill, salary wise. Her family didn't have enough money to put her through university (certainly not considering she's the youngest of ten - we're talking OLD SCHOOL). Her education was very good - it came from the knee of her Gung-Fu-master/traditional-medicine-doctor father - but it's hardly what you'd call formal.
So what are her prospects? She was doing OK when I met her, but she was only making a little under 2000 RMB a month (which is REALLY good, relatively speaking), but she had almost NO down-time. That's a crappy life, hustling make-up and toiletries in the few off-hours she had from her job managing a KTV place.
Again, if you haven't been to China, you may not know what that means. Just think VERY sleazy nightclub featuring karaoke in private, anything-goes rooms for the clients. I got her out of there, you can take that to the flippin' bank.
She's now sick to death of being a housewife after two years of marriage. So we're going to the U.S. where she can hustle cold cream in a shopping mall or do foot massages or something for about a bazillion times what she could ever hope to make in China, with her lack of formal education.
I have absolutely no problem at all with people doing that. In fact, I am glad that they do - it makes my country all the more vibrant.

[sidjameson]

Gregor thanks for giving us a real slice of your life in such succint detail. I feel that the irony of living in a foreign country is that a guy who can explain his situation as well as you just did, ie a native speaker, can give you a better understanding of the new culture that surrounds you than any half assed chat in the most dumbed down version of english, chinese or whatever that a conversation with most of the locals would.
Wow, 1 of 10. I thought the one child policy was the norm in China.

[Gregor]

sidjameson wrote:

[prlester]

demographics like that wouldn't favor the men with dating, i would assume. Any cultural changes from the dearth of women since 1979?