Job Discussion Forums

[Zzonkmiles]

[SEndrigo]

Uhh, I don't know where you're from, but my experience has been that back home, foreigners had no problem making friends!

It's very simple, every one on this message board except you has indicated that Japan is the most difficult country to make friends in.

But even still, I'm not saying that Japanese are unfriendly and/or cold, nor am I saying that this is unique to Japan.

And by the way, I never avoided "immigrants" back home, since I happened to be one myself!

[Synne]

...conform to the J's and youre a shoo- in.

[greent]

check out vietnam and cambodia when you go to southeast asia. i haven't taught in japan, but it kind of sounds like the social opposite of vietnam. don't feel like a failure for leaving either- you don't need to prove anything by being unhappy. it's not giving up unless you really see something in japan that drew you there and that you're gaining from.

[nomadder]

I believe in sticking with my commitments especially if it's only a matter of a few months. Working abroad is not some hedonistic trip. You're there to live up to the contract you signed and do your best and learn and grow from the situation if possible. If it builds character, all the better. How would you like it if a boss decided to drop you a few months before the contract ended? What goes around, comes around.

Unless you're severely depressed, have a medical emergency, family emergency or are being very badly treated by your boss I think you are quitting, giving up and maybe you need to rethink the whole teaching abroad idea. Maybe you'd be better off just travelling.

[mrjohndub]

[nomadder]

If someone is a terrible teacher and losing students all the time then it's best for both if the teacher leaves/is given notice. You would have a sense that you weren't cut out for the job and be glad to leave but if people randomly end contracts due to minor and tolerable things it sets up a bad situation. The more teachers don't honor their contract, the worse they make us all look and there's more chance of employers not honoring their end of the deal. They also won't feel bad about lowering salaries either.

[mrjohndub]

So, you're saying that he should stay for the benefit of you and me? So 'we' don't look bad? You're going to have to launch a larger-scale effort than that.

[Stosskraft]

Hey Nommader,

I understand what your trying to say, and for the most part I agree with you. But I am not talking about doing a runner here. Giving 2 month notice is ample time, and I am only going to be leaving one month early anyways. My school has found a replacement and I will be helping to train him soon.

I agree that maybe I am not helping the image of ESL teachers by doing this, but neither are the clowns at my school who are showing up late,hungover and who like to announce their hate for teaching.

On the flip side, my school hasn't lived up fully to their obligations either. Now I know 2 wrongs don't make a right, but there is some middle ground here also, I think.

Besides, I really don't intend to work here for 2-3 years to make some friends or develop some resemblance to a social life.

I realize that most likely my personality just doesn't fit here. I have lived abroad and I didn't put half the effort into making friends as I have here, yet I find myself still sitting at home alone all too often (for me, anyways).

I came to Japan with an open mind, enthusiasm and high expectations. Unfortunately I still have this feeling in the pit of my stomach that it just wasn't to be. Hard to but in words really, but as I explained to a close friend, I love Japan, but I don't really think it loves me back.

Thanks again for every body's amazing replies in this board.

[mrjohndub]

I think your attitude about all this is sufficiently mature and it's clear that you've kept an open mind.

...And if I get hit by a car again on my bike, I'm leaving Japan immediately. Today was the third time. It was just careless driving. The first time I actually had to go to the hospital and broke a bunch of ribs. This time and the last were just making contact, but it was dangerous. I don't understand why people here can't drive safely and courteously around cyclists and pedestrians.

[nomadder]

1 month Stosskraft? I'm guessing that meant taking xmas vacation and then coming back to work for 1 month which would have been annoying. Hmm?

I was lucky enough to have 5 months off (Nov-Mar) between my first and second Jjobs and it was a great time to travel in SEA and Aus/NZ. If only I'd had a month or 2 off every winter I might still be there. And I wouldn't have to keep figuring out how to work job contracts with my travel addiction.

But you've got me to thinking. It seems once we become transient it can be hard to have a great social life as those you meet are probably only there for the short term or locals who you either don't connect with or who figure you won't be around for long. Then you go home and it's all changed.....

[Rorschach]

As mentioned before, there is a papable one year hump, especally if this is your first time in Japan. Around the 14 month of my stay here I had serious doubts about whether I wanted to stay. At that time work was crap, my girlfriend was moody as hell (probably a reaction to my own mood swings) and I had put on a lot of weight due to my shift (late shift, screwed up my metabolism). I was fairly depressed at that time as I had no friends of substance (Japanese nor Western) and was living in a bad area of Osaka. In the end I had to make some changes. Largely they involved getting serious about stuying Japanese, moving to a better area and going to the gym more regularly. I can honestly say it helped. I have been here now 2 years and 3 months and I am in a good space at the moment. I have days when I am super depressed and wished I was back home but I think everyone goes through this at one time or another, regadless of how long they have been here. You just have to remember that it will get better.

About making Japanese friends: If it isn't happening, don't force it. You can only improve your chances for making Japanese friends by associating with the them more (this does not include bars and clubs from my experience). I go to a boxing gym and not one guy there can speak English. However, over the course of a year they have adopted me in spite of my fumbling Japanese ability (slowly getting better, painfully). I wouldn't count them as friends yet but in time, as my own proficiency with the language grows I'm sure the potential is there. In the end though you have to build some character, become better than you were before. Back in your home country, surrounded by your comforts, its easy to become lax and pity yourself when you are down. I have found here, the hard way, that there is no such luxury. You really have to be your own person. If you do this you wiill attract the right kind of people (girls included).

[Anne0]

I actually agree with the other poster about how the Japanese are no more cold than other countries. I've lived in NY my whole life. In my High School I was one of the few native English speakers that made friends with the ESL student. Other than that people went out of their way to avoid them. The other students made fun of them behind their back and well, they just felt unwanted. I mean, my High School was actually pretty friendly. Even the new teacher that came my Junior year commented that the first thing they noticed was there were no social groups at my High School. But still, no one made friends with the ESL students. In my college it was a little different. For the large part many of the races stuck together whether they were native English speakers or international. There were few that hung out with anyone but we were the minority most just stuck with their own race/language/social group. social group being all the dance majors stuck together, the sority/fraterinity people stuck together, the sports people stuck together (and wore their jacket ALL THE FREAKIN TIME).

I am still applying to school in japan so I cannot say anything about Japanese people. I honestly think if he's truly unhappy in japan and wants to leave than nothing is stopping him. Every country is not for everyoneso maybe he really doesn't "click" in Japan.

[shuize]

I'm with Zzonkmiles, too. There may be a few around this board that are exceptional for hanging around foreign students back home. I did as part of ESL tutoring in the United States. But by doing so I heard from those students just how hard it was to meet people outside their language centers. I remember thinking the same thing Zzonkmiles posted: If they can't meet people on a university campus, how the hell are they going to do it anywhere else?

As for Japan, I also know from experience that if things don't click, especially in a rural area, life can be hard. Language ability plays a big role (just as it did in the U.S.). Really, how many average people do you know back home who'd want to befriend someone with whom they have very little in common just to be met with hours and hours of fractured and incoherent English? As noted in the boxing and other sports examples, clubs and circles are a good place to start. Repetition is also key. "O.K. his Japanese sucks," they may think to themselves, "but he's always here working out and paying his dues. Let's encourage him."

[gaijinalways]

I'm with Zonk, somewhat, with a fewe reservations. I had a few international friends in university (Lebanon, Portugal, China, etc.). I did join the international club for a while, and also the chess club I was in had a few Russians as well.

I think with people's work schedules here, you have to make an effort to go out with people (either foreign or Japanese) and do different things if possible. I'm married, and not into clubbing, though I sometimes go out drinking. I'm quite busy with my university jobs, so my socializing is limited.

The Japanese are hard to get to know. Of course, as mentioned before, language is one problem. Another is 'the gaijin as guest' theory, which even some of the gaijin subscribe to. It is difficult to get into a circle sometimes. I listened with envy to the poster who lives in Okinawa, but in general I have found Okinawans much more approachable (except for the bad impression some of the US soldiers leave), perhaps because they are in a similar boat, being sometimes thought of as not being Japanese!

But also, sometimes even when you manage to join people or someone, it is difficult to move to deeper levels because of the tatemae vs honne distinctions, and almost "a what do I get out of it kind of feeling" I am left with sometimes. Of course, many people network, but sometimes I feel that many of the Japanese are almost too busy to make 'normal real' friends (sorry, sounds awkward, can't think of a better way to phrase it at the moment). I would go with my wife's friends, but they generally do the single sex thing, so I would definately feel like a 'crasher' for her ladies' night out. I live in Tokyo, and some of it is living in the city, but I would agree with some of the other posters, this is a more difficult country to make friends in than others I have visited/lived in.

As to bailing or staying, that's a personal decision. I myself am considering bailing, but I have been here 8 years, have a pretty good income, and am considering our options when and where we will move to. Give it time, but if you are not happy (though a girlfriend might ease the pain, but it sometimes won't be enough), pull up roots and go somewhere where you're more in tune with people. It does help to be a little to be introverted here, and sometimes a bit of a follower yourself, though certainly there are Japanese who are outgoing, but in general they are not as common here as some other places I've visited/lived in.