Job Discussion Forums

[mack4289]

sorry to all those who miss puncuation and paragraph indents, casualties of the internet age and my own personal laziness. id like to agree with ryan on a point: u do never hear about the good things that happen in north korea. well ryan heres your chance to spread the word: this post topic has attracted open minded readers who are obviously interested in politics and would like to hear other side of the story. so what are the good things happening in north korea that we dont hear about?

[matttheboy]

For some fun and games:

http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=47193

And please learn to spell definition. It's not difficult and by constantly mis-spelling such a common word you undermine your already pathetic excuses for an argument. Like i said- moonraven without the eloquence.

And for something good from North Korea, check out the Arirang Festival

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1582380,00.html

Now that's a great use of your country's already limited resources, Kimmy...

[RyanS]

The Grammarians rock they add nothing to the arguement they just post links and say, "Your wrong because you spelt this word wrong." Cute! By the way "Matttheboy" you spelt "I" wrong because its lower cause. A comma after "Now". You forgot a period on your last sentence. You're obviously not qualified to argue because you made grammar mistakes.

Okay back to addressing people not acting like the 10 year old tattle-tale.

Anyways we're way off topic now with Korea...

I am not going to claim to be an expert on North Korea. I don't know everything about every country in the world, read North Korean sources, they can be difficult to come accross, try to get a balanced opinion in this war of ideas, not everything you read from North Korea is unbiased. It requires your own world understanding to decide what is true and what is not. I cannot tell you what to think. You will come to your own conclusions. Here are some links about North Korea. I've read from a couple of the sources.

One thing you're not told about Korea Unifaction is that the United States refuses to allow North Korea and Korea meet on talks of reunification without their presence. South Korea has been under the rule of Military Dictatorships since 1987. One may recall the gwangju uprising(http://www.koreatruth.org/) in South Korea against the Military Dictatorship of Chun in the 1980, surpressed by troops under US command. Hundreds of thousands of people joined in the protests against the overthrow of their democracy refusing to recognize this dictatorship. A democracy who's interests countered those of the United States.

For example one achievement is this huge farming complex built in 2001 that is suppost to be the biggest goat farm in Asia outside of an Indian one.

http://www.korea-dpr.com/faq.htm (neat little FAQ)

http://www.nlg.org/programs/international/North_Korean_Delegation_Report2003.pdf

http://www.axistogrind.com/

http://www.cbcradio3.com/issues/2004_01_09/index.cfm?page=08

http://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=45071&highlight=korea (national geographic publication)


http://www.nlg.org/korea/myths_of_the_hermit.html

http://www.kancc.org/english/sideMenu/view.php?class_id=400&cat_id=7&mnum=5&a_id=4

http://www.kancc.org/english/sideMenu/view.php?class_id=400&cat_id=7&mnum=5&a_id=6

http://www.kancc.org/english/sideMenu/view.php?class_id=400&cat_id=7&mnum=5&a_id=5

[MELEE]

[YanquiQuilme�o]

North Korea is full of marvelous delights. Why just the other day, they held a raffle for baked goods in one of their winsome death camps!

[RyanS]

[YanquiQuilme�o]

[RyanS]

[mack4289]

i could only open three of the north korean links. i think the articles are good for two reasons: to remind us that whatever the differences between countries, the people living in these countries are human beings who mostly want a lot of the same things we do. also they remind me how little any of us can claim to actually know.
the problem of questionable knowledge is especially true when it comes to north korea, since they severely limit who can come there. so if things are really as decent there as these writers are saying, why do they keep most outsiders out?
for all of you who were surprised to read this: "South Korea has been under the rule of Military Dictatorships since 1987", well you should be surprised because apparently the people at wikipedia havent heard this (nor have the koreans i work with and teach every day). heres the wikipedia entry for south korea http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Korea .

[RyanS]

sorry I meant to say the dictatorship ended since 1987 not started.

[mack4289]

id also like to mention that the "neat little FAQ"'s (http://www.korea-dpr.com/faq.htm) first question is the one thats on all of your minds when we think of north korea:
1. Can I get a signed photograph from Leader Kim Jong IL?
Soon the KFA shop will offer such article.

[YanquiQuilme�o]

Paris Hilton says, "That's hot!"

[RyanS]

[redsoxfan]

I would just add a couple more general comments. First, while I do believe that US foreign policy deserves much criticism, I don't particularly want to get into a discussion about the relative pros and cons of such policies. Suffice it to say that we are a young, powerful country with some excellent ideals and, simultaneously, a lot of arrogance and greed. The US is the most diverse nation in the world, and political ideals are no exception. One can point to suspicious interventions in Latin America on the one hand, and one can also note that we helped to bring down communism and free Eastern Europe on the other hand. As I am living in Poland, the latter is more immediately apparent to me, and such is one of the reasons why Poles look upon America so fondly.

I would rather comment on Ryan S's general outlook on things. It seems to me that some people decide at the get go that they will take a certain stance on politics. This has to do more with the person than the matters at hand. For instance, many people who supported the current Iraq war did so, not because they did any solid research, but rather because such a position reflects their own personalities. Our political leanings are more a description of ourselves than they are a reaction to actual events. It is clear from Ryan's picture of Hitler killing himself that he sees a leftist political orientation as a central part of his identity. That's fine, actually the same is true for me, but to a much, much lesser extent. After all, Nazi's are hardly a problem in the States, so why choose such a picture as a description of your thoughts on the world? Frankly, it's pretty boring to me, but to each his own.

The real problem that arises when we choose political stances based primarily on our self-image is that we are hence forced into ideologies. To me, "ideology" is a very ugly word. In his mega list of American transgressions, Ryan listed interventions into Serbia and Somalia. Is he against such interventions? He didn't list the intervention in Rwanda to stop a genocide. Why? Serbia should have been bombed, and indeed, many lives would've been spared if we hadn't allowed Europe to tinker around first while thousands were being killed, raped and internally displaced. Rather than to suggest that US presence abroad is always wrong, I think it is much more interesting and constructive to discuss the ways in which we can actually promote democracy and freedom. Granted, we often don't have such lofty goals, but sometimes we do. Anyway, the point being: there is something seriously wrong when ideology leads one to suggest that North Korea is not a hellhole, and the United States is not free. Ugh. Ryan, if you are not defending market economics, please tell us what you are in fact advocating. And if you think the US is not free, geez, which country is free? I believe that in the States there is more economic opportunity than anywhere. There is also a culture of freedom, independence and creativity that doesn't exist to the same extent anywhere else in the world. That's why we invent everything. We invented the steam engine, cars, airplanes, space ships. Rock and roll, blues, jazz, hip-hop, soul, funk, grunge, and punk (sort of). If we are not so free, then why do we continue to produce forms of culture which are loved throughout the world? I'm not the biggest Brittney Spears fan, but many folks are. What has North Korea contributed to global culture?

I left the States a year ago because I was bored, and because I felt uncomfortable with the political situation there. But I must say, I have actually become more patriotic since I left, because I can see first-hand the ways in which the States is a great place. If only Poland produced such great, original music, films, diverse foods (don't let anyone tell you that American food sucks--we have wonderful food from so many cultures readily available--I love the food in the States), and a society where people are generally happy, open-minded and free. In the States, we do what we want. Even in Europe, everything except politics is more conservative, old-fashioned, and rigid. Ryan, you should be proud to be a citizen of the 51st state

[Aramas]

Well we might not be able to change the world, but at least we can critique the grammar of the oppressors.

The US owes so much to the nazis - cruise missiles, ICBM's, nuclear warheads, jet engines, the space program, foreign policy, propaganda, concentration camps, torture techniques, etc.. You'd think that they might have noticed that occupation always ends in tears. Oh well, those who ignore history...