Job Discussion Forums

[almuze]

Yes, that is the question. I have a BA, I have previous ESL teaching experience, and am currently employed as an ESL teacher.... think my job and salary are fine. But I wonder, if I had a MA in teaching ESL, would this open up new worlds of possiblity here in Istanbul? Would anything really change in terms of jobs available to me (primary school, perferably) and salary offered? Then, if I did get a MA, I would do it on-line, would that make any difference at all? any thoughts?

[Hector_Lector]

To get.

[Otterman Ollie]

First question is the cost to you ,then how are you going to get that back .Sure you might get a bit more in your paycheck but not much . Really in this industry do you need one ? Most people do it for a hobby,in this game it just becomes part of a paper chase ,don't bother .

[ghost]

The people with M.A's who work in Turkey usually do not possess significant advantages over others who come to Turkey to work. In fact, oftentimes, they have no advantages at all and work the same hours, for the same wages as 'backpackers' with a mere 4 week TEFL Certificate.

This was the case for ghost, when it lost its job at a certain Kolej on the South Coast. Ghost then went to work at a couple of language schools, and was paid at the same rate as the backpackers. No advantage whatsoever. Ghost has an M.A. as well as a B.A., B.Ed. and a Post Graduate Certificate in Second Language Teaching (also equivalent to an M.A.).

Yes - an M.A. looks good on a c.v., but the reality of the situation in Turkey, is that most jobs do not require an M.A., and many schools do not see the advantage of employing someone with an M.A. when a dynamic backpacker can do the same job.

In some Universities, M.A.'s are given preferential treatment, but those jobs are not plentiful.

Ghost in Taichung, Taiwan

[Hector_Lector]

People with an MA often discover that their messages disappear mysteriously from the forum.

Not surprising, as the forum is based in a country which has murdered 1000 people (officially) since 1976.

Looking through Gary Gilmour�s eyes, I would have to say - where is freedom?

[Hector_Lector]

Poncelvania.

[Hector_Lector]

And don�t even mention the CIA...

[Hector_Lector]

Good!

[molly farquharson]

If you want to teach English in North America (I don't know your nationality), you would need the masters deg. For Turkey, it would allow you to work at places like Koc or Sabanci Univ. I think a masters gives a lot of insight into the depth of teaching and thus much more understanding of it. It would also allow you to do more than teach-- testing, curriculum development, materials development, etc. If you are serious about the profession, I think it would open doors for you.

[almuze]

well, I am North American, have done some sub. work over there just w/ my BA, but we are here in Turkey to stay FOREVER, because I think if my turkish spouse had to deal with any more lack of "food culture" (that basically, every country in the world outside of Turkey lacks) he would go insane. poor boy. who knew access to good turkish tomatoes was so essential to one's well being?
But now I am derailing my own thread. opps.
I hate to ask, but, so the ESL dept. at Koc and Sabanci is more than just well educated turks who are copying the lesson plans word for word from Oxford Uni Press into thier lesson books? I mean, I am teaching at private schools where the curriculum dev. is basically purchasing the package from Oxford and then spacing it out over the year on your big year plan paper. same for materials dev. and testing, all bought as part of the package, all very glossy and nice, but hardly something I need further schooling to be able to do. It is kind of boring, and when outside materials are suggested these are often viewed w/ suspicion.

Since we are here Forever (did I mention the Turkish Yogurt? and bread?)
I would really like to find a job that is interesting and more than play pretend professional. hmmm, I'll take your word that the ESL dept. at those schools is a real dept. Any other schools w/ good ESL depts where a MA would be worth getting?

[molly farquharson]

I know at Koc the teachers in the hazirlik MUST have masters degress and then they do a lot of materials and testing development, completely the opposite of the package you talked about. The teachers are all native English speakers, mostly North AMerican. They are very professional. I am less sure of Sabanci, but I know a few years ago they were working together with a consultant (a friend of mine) to develop their program and materials. I am not very familiar with the hazirlik programs at the other univs. With a masters you are also more likely to work in higher positions in language schools, esp if you have developed expertise in the larger aspects of teaching. I think you should base your decision on where you want to go in your career.

[justme]

A MATESOL is basically Applied Educational Linguistics. I call mine that when I want to impress people who don't know what TESOL is.

Will it get you a better job here? I'm happy at Fatih U, but I more or less lucked into it like everyone else lucks in to good jobs, MA or not, so I don't know (Fatih doesn't reqire an MA). I guess it makes it easier on me when I'm suddenly called upon to do non-classroom stuff, like materials devel, curriculum planning, and testing (like Molly pointed out), and perhaps I produce better quality work than someone with the same amount of experiance and no MA. But I don't know that either. Everyone's different. I guess it also makes administrators take me more seriously when I make insane suggestions like 'Let's stop using discreet-point multiple choice grammar testing on exams.'

Really, I'd say that if you're interested in linguistics, and want to devote yourself to academic pursuits for a couple of years, and if you're interested in continuing with an academic life post-degree, then do it. I loved doing my MA program, and now when I'm bored I can ponder phonetics and sociolinguistics. I like knowing stuff, I'm happy with what I learned, and I'm glad I have the background to continue reading and learning new stuff. But if you want a MA to get a better job here, I'd say it's not worth the $30,000 debt I'm paying off.

I don't regret getting the MA for a moment, but I never did it to be rich or have a wonderful career. I did it because I was interested and to make myself a little bit better.

[Mark Loyd]

an MA

[almuze]

thanks so much! exactly what I needeed to know, and now there seems to be some light at the end of the tunnel.... teaching in turkey can be interesting and challenging! (challenging in an interesting way, not in a "can I manage to stand up with this hang over? will I be spit on by students today? kind of a way....)
I think I will go for my MA, give me more big words to use. maybe scare my in-laws. thanks again.

[justme]

Impressive use of big words is an important reason to have a/an MA.

Inability to decide if it's an MA or a MA is personal, and not due to the MA. Since MA is short for Master of Arts, it should be 'a,' right? But in speaking I would say 'an MA,' if I said that, which I wouldn't because I would say 'a Master's.' But I'm too lazy to write those 6 extra characters, plus the 'shift' a Turkish keyboard requires for the apostrophe, so I'm writing it the short way, with 'a,' because I mean a Master's. Or Masters'. Or Masters. Hell.

I guess everyone needs Mark Loyd to set her straight very now and again.

Good luck, almuze. It sounds like you're thinking of doing it for the right reasons. Kolay gelsin.