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TaoyuanSteve
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 1028
Location: Taoyuan
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 Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| Pop Fly wrote: |
| Pop Fly wrote: |
TS, I am happy you find f.com to be such a glorious community. As you yourself have noted, it has made you a better, wiser poster. I am glad, because you were once just as judgemental as those that I abhor. I think (hope) we have resolved our differences and can now contribute to this (Dave's) site in a mature and respectful fashion.
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But I guessed wrong, didn't I.
Steve, Steve, Steve....tsk tsk tsk....that's as bad as MapoSquid. I can't and won't respond over there, so congratulations....you do fit the mold of a f.comer. I am sure your moderator badge is in the mail. Also, please ask the great dane to read this more carefully. This is, in no way, a personal attack against him. More to whit, I hold him up as a beacon of integrity in an all too shallow pool of dim. |
Since this discussion has turned into an off-topic debate over the supposed evils of forumosa, I thought it relevent to post a link to this discussion over there for users and admin to be aware of what is being said and, perhaps, respond to it if they choose to. Take that however you choose.
I doubt "The Great Dane" needs any reading lessons, btw-- now breaking bread with the very same transgressors. Colour me shocked! --is pretty unambiguous. |
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Pop Fly
Joined: 15 Feb 2003
Posts: 429
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| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| TaoyuanSteve wrote: |
| Pop Fly wrote: |
| Pop Fly wrote: |
TS, I am happy you find f.com to be such a glorious community. As you yourself have noted, it has made you a better, wiser poster. I am glad, because you were once just as judgemental as those that I abhor. I think (hope) we have resolved our differences and can now contribute to this (Dave's) site in a mature and respectful fashion.
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But I guessed wrong, didn't I.
Steve, Steve, Steve....tsk tsk tsk....that's as bad as MapoSquid. I can't and won't respond over there, so congratulations....you do fit the mold of a f.comer. I am sure your moderator badge is in the mail. Also, please ask the great dane to read this more carefully. This is, in no way, a personal attack against him. More to whit, I hold him up as a beacon of integrity in an all too shallow pool of dim. |
Since this discussion has turned into an off-topic debate over the supposed evils of forumosa, I thought it relevent to post a link to this discussion over there for users and admin to be aware of what is being said and, perhaps, respond to it if they choose to. Take that however you choose.
I doubt "The Great Dane" needs any reading lessons, btw-- now breaking bread with the very same transgressors. Colour me shocked! --is pretty unambiguous. |
a) Not at all off-topic. Completely on topic. The OP wants to know more about other websites about Taiwan. You came in all happy happy joy joy about Forumosa. I refute your claim. How is this off-topic?
b) Please don't misquote me. I said: "Colour me shocked!  " The twisted smiley makes the entire statement ambiguous. That's why I put it there. So the party in question would know I was teasing. Please get your facts straight.
And I am not objecting to the fact that you posted a link to this thread over there. I am objecting to the judgemental tone by which you accompished that. To whit:
| Toasty wrote: |
| It seems an old friend is doing his best to slander Forumosa. I can't understand why some can't just move on with their lives. |
Why so judgemental? If you have something to say about me personally, be a man and say it where I will respond.
Here's why I can't "move on": Because you keep coming in here (Dave's) promoting f.com. Not only in this thread but all your advice of late seems sprinkled with glowing references to it. I am using my Dave-given right to exercise rebuttal. But you had to get all personal about it. Why? I thought you'd become a sager poster of late? Isn't that what you wrote in your apology to me some months ago at f.com?
Another reason I can't move on was explained earlier. MapoSquid has again levelled an attack at me and after calmly asking your "boss" to flame it, even bargaining that I would cease all attacks on f.com should he flame it, he didn't figure me worthy of a response. He is a hypocrite and everyone should know it. Therfore, after waiting a week for him to flame the offending post or at least get a response from him, I took the opportunity to let people know what I think about f.com when the OP asked for info on it.
Also, your thread title is misleading. I quit f.com. The banning came, as I explained earlier, as a result of the head honcho's loss of face. |
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Forumosa Maoman
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 22
Location: Lotus Hill
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| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 7:22 am Post subject: |
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| Pop Fly wrote: |
| Oh, and as we are on the subject, I wasn't banned for the reasons stated by his holiness. I was banned because I, in his holiness' estimation, betrayed his confidence. |
If you like, I'd be happy to sit down with you over a cup of coffee and discuss this. It seems like you still have a lot of questions. I believe that face to face meetings are more conducive to "real" communication than the internet. No amount of emoticons can indicate sincerity, hurt, dissatisfaction, whatever, as well as real human contact. You have my cell phone number. Call me any time.
Best,
Anthony van Dyck (aka Maoman, aka his holiness  )
Forumosa Co-Admin |
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Pop Fly
Joined: 15 Feb 2003
Posts: 429
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| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 7:27 am Post subject: |
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| Forumosa Maoman wrote: |
| Pop Fly wrote: |
| Oh, and as we are on the subject, I wasn't banned for the reasons stated by his holiness. I was banned because I, in his holiness' estimation, betrayed his confidence. |
If you like, I'd be happy to sit down with you over a cup of coffee and discuss this. It seems like you still have a lot of questions. I believe that face to face meetings are more conducive to "real" communication than the internet. No amount of emoticons can indicate sincerity, hurt, dissatisfaction, whatever, as well as real human contact. You have my cell phone number. Call me any time.
Best,
Anthony van Dyck (aka Maoman, aka his holiness )
Forumosa Co-Admin |
No face to face neccessary. Do the right thing and delete Squid's hateful post as you would any other personal attack and I'll button up about f.com. As I promised. I, am a man of my word. |
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Forumosa Maoman
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 22
Location: Lotus Hill
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| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 7:51 am Post subject: |
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| Pop Fly wrote: |
| Forumosa Maoman wrote: |
If you like, I'd be happy to sit down with you over a cup of coffee and discuss this. It seems like you still have a lot of questions. I believe that face to face meetings are more conducive to "real" communication than the internet. No amount of emoticons can indicate sincerity, hurt, dissatisfaction, whatever, as well as real human contact. You have my cell phone number. Call me any time.
Best,
Anthony van Dyck (aka Maoman, aka his holiness )
Forumosa Co-Admin |
No face to face neccessary. Do the right thing and delete Squid's hateful post as you would any other personal attack and I'll button up about f.com. |
Well, first of all, in our view, there is no personal attack from Squid. He certainly references your past altercation, which is a little tedious, but that episode is water under the bridge, as far as Gus and I are concerned. No names are/were mentioned, and no rules were broken.  For both Gus and I, it's an easy call. I know that isn't the answer you want to hear, but there it is.
As far as your criticisms of Forumosa go, we understand you feel hard done by. We disagree with your reasoning, but have no intention of asking or bargaining with you to stop. Search your heart, and post as you wish. We're not above reproach. That being said, we try to be accessible and approachable. Anybody who wants to meet me to discuss Forumosa's policies is always welcome. My cell phone number is 0935-560-995. I keep my phone turned off or "silent" when I'm in class, so don't be discouraged if you get no answer at first.
Toe, I've known you personally a long time. I like you (your offline persona, that is), but I have to be as consistent as possible. Considering that both you and Squid are at opposite ends of the spectrum, I've come to realize that there's no pleasing either one of you and being true to myself and the standards I'm trying to set at Forumosa at the same time. Gus (co-admin) feels the same way. I wish you well, and I hope that at some point you can get past this.
Sincerely,
Anthony |
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Pop Fly
Joined: 15 Feb 2003
Posts: 429
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| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 8:04 am Post subject: |
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Well, if anything, I've tripled your post count here at dave's.
Maybe you don't see it as hateful or personal, but I certainly do. 1 click of the mouse and it's gone and so am I. But if you can't see that that post is the straw on the back of my camel that began to be weighed down when I first announced ChitChat cafe and continued throught the travesty of Core&Corner, with further weight being added with my critique of Carnegies and the Star Chamber, well, yes I feel hard done by because I have been. Your website has done so much to slander me, I feel like running for US President.
But you are perfect in your infinite wisdom. So be it. You refuse a request to pull a shameful post that does indeed stick in my craw, I will continue to stick in yours as often as I can. Your site is shameful testament to hypocrisy. Hope you are proud.
Remember, you could have treated this so much better by simply flaming a flame. |
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MatthewJust
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 8:38 am Post subject: |
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I really dont know the history so can't comment on the disagreement between Pop Fly and Forumosa Maoman. I apologise for butting in but I am OP 
As someone with a background in law I would just like to point out that slander is spoken; libel is written. Therefore you guys should really be talking about libel. If in doubt use the word defamation (nice catch-all term)
Btw, if anyone knows any lawyers (or has links to law firms in Taiwan) I'd be grateful if they'd pass them on. Eventually I'd like to try to secure some sort of law-related work in Taiwan.
Matthew |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:14 am Post subject: |
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| TaoyuanSteve wrote: |
| Clark wrote: |
| Something that I find a bit odd over there is the way that a board that holds itself up as being a foundation for foreigners in Taiwan, can so easily come to persecute foreigners who happen to be in Taiwan. |
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Are you kidding me when you suggest that you are not aware of any posters on that board being 'persecuted', 'trashed' whatever you call it, for no fault of their own but for not holding a view that the majority of the board holds. I don't believe that I need to provide proof, just have a look at some of the replies that some members make over there. Totally unhelpful and sometimes in quite bad taste.
I am talking about good honest opinion, good honest ideas, and good honest people posting on a forum only to have the thread become a personal battles. Maoman is here now which is great as I believe that the theory of forumosa is a good one and personally I think that they have done a great job as far as providing such a comprehensive forum! The downside is that some of the posters are overzealous in their posting and it would appear to non-regulars such as myself that these people are allowed to get away with this just because they are one of the boys!
I think that this is largely what happened to Pop Fly as he distanced himself from 'the boys' and his thread was quickly destroyed by posts of a personal nature that probably had no place in that thread.
Other than the above I find the mods over there to be pretty reasonable.
| TaoyuanSteve wrote: |
| Quote: |
| He had an idea. He took it to the board for discussion. Instead of receiving constructive criticism, it became a pissing contest among people who i suspect are all words and no action. Pop Fly was trying to actually achieve something that many foreign teachers wanted, and a number of people who didn't need that service chose to rip it apart rather than just moving onto the next post. |
No. There was alot going on offline as well as on it during the time you mention(and much of the worst of the online stuff was editted and flamed). There were upset people and there were personal problems and confrontations neither you nor I were party to, Clark. Out of respect to all parties at the time (including popfly), I suggest we stay way from judgements such as the above. |
I am not talking about his reasons for being banned, I am talking about the way that a positive and constructive opportunity for the teachers who wanted to take it was derailed by off topic and personal discussions about the person who started the thread rather than the idea itself. I personally cannot stand people who criticize those who are having a go, yet sit back and do nothing themselves, and I have a feeling that SOME of the people in that post fit this description. There was some constructive criticism of the idea which is good as that is why the thread was started in the first place, but unfortunately this was lost in among the personal insults and character assasination.
So I stand by my earlier post. F.com is a great place for information from long termers in Taiwan but just beware of any posts that you make on that forum! |
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Pop Fly
Joined: 15 Feb 2003
Posts: 429
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:40 am Post subject: |
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Taoyuan Steve,
There is a question before you:
| Pop Fly wrote: |
a hypothetical question;
If Taoyuan Steve had a business idea, would he go to f.com to discuss it and to drum up support for it? |
As you saw fit to start a thread at Forumosa denegrating my personality, can you at least have the good manners to answer the question before you?
I hold no grudges or ill-will toward you, even given our past disharmony and your current back-stab. I wish, for the sake of the argument at hand, to have an answer to a very simple question.
Sure, there is no law saying you must answer it, but it's you who've escalated this discourse, so I believe that unless you are willing to completely concede to my view, you should have the honour to reply.
You've had the entire weekend to think it over. How about it?
By the by, I see others at your hallowed site share my view. Maybe I'm not as angry or bored or undersexed or shoulder-chipped or lost in life as you and your fellow 'umosans would have people believe.
Cbarmy and especially, Dewey Finn, if you are out there, keep up the good fight. It's nice to see them squirm.
edit: I see where Maoman has locked your thread Steve. How very typical. As long as Forumosa and it's denizens are being insulting toward me, it's open to all. The minute the argument goes the other way and Forumosa starts to lose face, it's locked down. Dewey was right in that it wouldn't take long for them to censure him.
Maoman, you are such a hypocrite. You allow posts that are hateful to me to stand, but that are supportive of me to be locked down. You are proving my point here beyond a shadow of a doubt. There is no reasonable doubt. You and your site are hypocritical and engage in gang-bashing anyone who disagrees with you. I rest my case. |
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Forumosa Maoman
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 22
Location: Lotus Hill
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| Pop Fly wrote: |
| I rest my case. |
We should be so lucky!  
Seriously, though, if you're really so upset, meet with me and Gus. I've already told you that I will. Of course I won't/can't let the way I run Forumosa be held hostage by a disgruntled banned user, but if you're serious about your complaints, give me a call. Do you have the courage of your convictions? If you do, meet with us. |
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Pop Fly
Joined: 15 Feb 2003
Posts: 429
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:47 am Post subject: |
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| Forumosa Maoman wrote: |
| Pop Fly wrote: |
| I rest my case. |
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Thanks for your overwhelming concern.
Edit (after Maoman's edit):
Seriously tho, No, I don't want to meet with you. You made it abundantly clear how you aren't going to change your mind. When I was polite and asked you to edit the post in question, you ignored me. Now I have brought your prejudice into the light and you want to again tell me how right you are? Forget it. Like I said, remove the post and any future posts that are directed at me and I am gone. Don't and I'll be here posting my version of things until the cows come home. It is not a hostage situation, it is a request for you to do the right thing. If it was anyone else who'd been insulted, the post would have been 86'd lickety-split. The fact that ou feel I've betrayed your trust (or as you put it, misquoted you) puts me in a special status as Forumosan whipping boy. You've made it personal and you know it. |
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