Job Discussion Forums

[fox1]

Hey guys..

so, here's the thing. Let's say I walk into an average "near-railway-station" real estate agency... (I have been doing that today )... the key question I'm wondering is: can they even find me an apartment? Is being a foreigner the mother of all obstacles? I spoke my limited Japanese today to the agent, and wrote down my details (including my company's name, Nova), and told her what I would like..... She said a lot of things, which I only partially understood. But I believe she was saying something along the lines of "it's a little complex because you're a foreigner".

Anyway, so, really, this is just to ask.. because I'm wondering: can foreigners (alone) find an apartment thru your average real estate agent? relatively easily, or with a lot of difficulty?

Also....that brings me to apartment "style". mmmm... I'm not a big fan of "mansions" and I've said that as well.

(Incidentally, thru another agent, I have been to countless mansions, old Japanese houses and all sorts of things, but they haven't been that right for me, and that company has been a bit farcical.... anyway...)

So... the "terrace house"... or basically the not mansion, the old Japanese style, tatami floor place: what name do they go by in Japanese ("terrace house"?...) Any suggestions on how to find one (or the best way), or how easy/difficult it is to find one thru a real-estate agent... All that would be really appreciated.

Anyone know what the different apt styles are all called. I know there's 'mansion'... and then, I don't really know what the others are called.

Thank you!

[azarashi sushi]

Hi Fox,

Basically it's realtively easy to find a place. Some real estates are total @$$holes towards foreigners but there are also alot of friendly and helpful ones out there too. It's just a matter of having a look around. Don't waste your time with any ones who start giving you that krap about it being difficult because you're a foreigner. Bear in mind though that the final decision rests with the landlord and not the real estate.

[Glenski]

Save yourself a lot of headaches. Read up on what is involved in renting and what certain terminology is used in renting.
http://jafnet.co.jp/manual/e.chintai/migigawa/epoint.htm
http://www.himeji-iec.or.jp/life/b_08/index_en.html
http://www.pref.nara.jp/silk/icd/h_english/2_04_e.html
http://www.geocities.com/indiansinjapan/living-in-japan/life-3.html
http://www.jobmonkey.com/teaching/asia/html/long_stay.html
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2207.html
http://jafnet.co.jp/manual/chintai/migigawa/apart.htm

Then bring a Japanese friend with you to help translate.

[Zzonkmiles]

Any real estate agency that advertises in English-language publications, such as the Kansai Flea Market, will be foreigner-friendly and offer English-language support.

The larger real estate agencies, such as Apaman Shop, might not care so much about you being a foreigner, but the landlords they serve MIGHT. So when the agent tells you "it's difficult," it's more likely a result of the landlords in that particular neighborhood not being open to foreigners living on their property. I'm sure the real estate agencies themselves would LOVE to get your money, but they have to work with the parameters they're given. Sometimes the "no foreigner" mentality comes from plain old racism. Other times they are worried about how the other neighbors might respond. Others think the foreigners might be too noisy or put their garbage out on the wrong days or whatever.

Also, if you're in Osaka, some neighborhoods are more "integrated" than others. You'll find most foreigners and immigrants living in southern and eastern Osaka, in neighborhoods such as Tsuruhashi, Daikokucho, Kita/Minami Tatsumi, Hirano, Suminoekoen, Shin Imamiya, Shin Fukae, and Tennoji. Bentencho, Sakuragawa, Imazato, and Kita Tatsumi also have a lot of NOVA teachers living there. You'll find far fewer foreigners living in northern and western Osaka, in neighborhoods such as Nishikujo, Fukushima, Noda, Tenmabashi, Ebie, etc. Keep this in mind when you are selecting a neighborhood, although its convenience (e.g., its proximity to train or subway stations) will probably be more important to you. Living outside of the Loop Line is cheaper, but it starts becoming a big hassle. Living in Nagahara, the next to last stop on the southern end of the purple Tanimachi Line, for example, is probably not worth it.

Also, be prepared to fork over a load of key money, particularly if you are using an agent that doesn't advertise in the English-language newspapers. 150,000-500,000 yen in key money alone is not uncommon, depending on how large your place is (I don't recommend anything under 6-jo/6-mats in size). And also remember, unfurnished apartments in Japan are really REALLY unfurnished. No light fixtures, no stove/oven, no refrigerator, no curtains/window blinds, and sometimes no air conditioner. Unless you already have these items, be prepared to pay a pretty penny when you do decide to move. You would be wise to ask yourself how long you plan to stay in Japan after you spend so much cash moving into a new place. Depending on how long you stay in the country, moving may or may not be worth it.

[canuck]

You're going to need a Japanese friend that speaks English to you to come along. It's just impossible to understand all the ins and outs of what you have to sign, unless you're lucky to find an agent that speaks English...and that you can trust...not worth it.

As said above, you'll need to pay some key money, and it varies. Also, you'll have to pay one month's rent as the agent's fee. Don't forget the insurance and some other misc. stuff...another 30,000 yen or so. You'll also need to find a guarantor. Nova might give you a letter for this or they might not.

Your best bet is to look in the Kansai Flea market.

There are lots of areas around Osaka that have a high concentration of foreigners, but I think Zzonkmiles meant English teachers. There are many areas, as mentioned, but not always the scummy areas like Shin Imamiya, Daikokucho etc. If I were to guess, I think the highest concentration is in Nagai and Mino...and Morinomiya where many JETs live.

I also disagree with the landlord issues...in Osaka, it's all about whether you can pay and will pay. Those "no foreigner" ideas are long gone.

If you're not planning on being here for a while, I wouldn't bother. It's quite a big investment and you won't be saving money comparitively until your 2nd or 3rd year. Don't forget about the heating and other costs that you take for granted while in Nova housing.

[fox1]

thanks a million.

I don't have a huge amount of time atm... I appreciate all your advice. I guess, to answer a few things....

A lot of the advice here is reassuring. Good to know that the "gaikokujin" issue is not necessarily that big a deal in this regard. Key money is OK, but not keen on paying the earth, obviously.

In terms of 'integrated' areas... I understand the points made here.

I would add that I don't necessarily want to live near to other English teachers, nor far away from them... I just want to live where I want to live. There are a couple of wards I really like. I am happy at this stage to be patient, and keep searching and searching, trying, and pushing... to find the apartment I want in the ward I want.

I'd love an old style house or room. 1K or whatever... the place itself is rather more important to me than particular room parameters, (but I'm happy to live in a 1K).

I have looked at quite a few 1K, old places..some as low as �17,000! I would be a model tenant, and it's sad if things get in the way. I'm not going to make a song and dance about it if a real-estate agent starts laying the "foreigner" stuff on me (the dignified thing to do is to politely close the negotiations).

I am planning on being here in Osaka a while. About the purchases: honestly, I am a cheapskate, and I don't need much... no AC, curtains, etc. Stove and appliances you can get real cheap in places, right?

Thanks for the links and advice.

[Glenski]

[canuck]

[JimDunlop2]

Earlier this summer I wrote an article about house/apartment hunting in Japan... It doesn't cover ALL the aspects, but there may be some information you may find useful, especially if this is your first foray into the world of Japanese accomodation-hunting.

http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=25137

[rai]

[David W]

[Zzonkmiles]

45,000 a month is about as cheap as you're going to get in Osaka without having to share rent with a roommate or give your landlord a "free" English lesson each week. There are some places out there in the 25-30,000 range, but those are usually the places you DON'T want. Those are places in neighborhoods very very far from the main parts of the city and are very small and/or very old, which likely means they'll have many other tenants of the 6-legged variety. They are also probably pretty far from the nearest station (at least a 10 minute walk) or don't have a supermarket or other conveniences nearby, such as a bank. Be very careful when you decide to take that cheap apartment in Kadomaminami or Deto or Nakafuto or Shin Ishikiri. Having to ride the train for almost an hour just to get to Namba will get old REAL quick, and the cost of a taxi back home after the last train might cancel out the money you save in cheaper rent each month.

Obviously, if you're living in the countryside, it shouldn't be so hard to find a place much cheaper than 45,000, but the original poster was talking about Osaka itself. Although there are always exceptions, places in Osaka in that price range (under 45,000) are generally not places you want to live in.

[PAULH]

zzonkmiles

My second apartment in Osaka was a nagaya or what is affectionately known as a bunka jutaku. Those are those old places usually 2 storied with a landing out the front and a rickety old staircase. Usually about 50 years old. I paid about 30,000 yen a month and shared with a Japanese guy who lived downstairs but we shared the upstairs kitchen.

There is old and there is old- my place had no central heating, the walls were made of a kind of clay and i have a Japanese style toilet which you squat over. Some just have a long drop hole which is vacuumed out by a truck every few months.

Co-ckroaches were a constant menace and we had 'gokiburi house' spread all over the kitchen. Walls are usually paper thin and its not uncommon to hear amorous couples making 'night music' next door.

Rents are usually based on distance to the station among other things and you may even need a bicycle. Try balancing groceries on a shopping bike or carrying them a kilometer (two-thirds of a mile) to your house at night.

[fox1]

[earthmonkey]