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jessicah632
Joined: 12 Jun 2005 Posts: 36 Location: Texas, USA
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Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| So I'm sensitive to the fact that borders and geographic definitions can be a really sore point with people. Whether we are innocently ignorant or want to emphasize culture over other distinctions its not a subject to treat lightly |
No, no, I agree. Knowing the borders of countries is important for political purposes, without a doubt. And it is very sad that some Americans have no clue that Ireland isn't all one big happy united island. When it comes to political issues, clearly it is necessary to know what divides certain countries (another example would be North & South Korea), and boundary plays a very vital factor in that. My point is simply that although it is certainly important to know where countries are located, if you're teaching a group of 12-year-olds who have never left the state of Texas, I believe it is more beneficial to start them with, "What are the fundamental principles of Islam and where in the world is it generally practiced and how does it affect their daily lives?" as opposed to, "Memorize the capital cities of each Middle Eastern and North African country."
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as I'm part Irish in a very Irish Boston, making geographic distinctions (like Northern Ireland vs Ireland) has huge political implications. |
I would also argue that for that specific example, the conflict is in large part tied to religion: Protestant vs. Catholic. Religion falls under the category of culture. Therefore, teaching kids the CULTURAL background of Ireland would explore the Northern Ireland conflict just as well as -- if not better than -- whipping out a map and having them distinguish all the counties in alliance with Northern Ireland and all counties in alliance with Ireland (the "geographic" distinction.)
This has gone way off topic from my original post, sorry. I find it interesting though.
And I don't mean to sound so argumentative, but... oh wait, maybe I do
--Jessicah
Last edited by jessicah632 on Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Cdaniels
Joined: 21 Mar 2005 Posts: 663 Location: Dunwich, Massachusetts
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Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:09 pm Post subject: Satem and Centum Indo-European Classifications |
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Yeah, interesting topic! OK-European linguistically. Might be Languages in the Indo-European family, which includes: a Satem group in the east (Baltic, Slavic, Indo-Iranian, Armenian) and a Centum group in the west (Greek, Italic, Celtic, Germanic) Basque is beleived to be an isolate language surrounded geogrphically by Indo-European languages. Russian, Serbian and Turkish* are part of the "Satem" group. "Indo "specifically refers to India alone. -(polemical)
I would think the division at Dave's has more to do with numbers of posters/ internet traffic, though. -(non-polemical)
*I was mistaken. Turkish is not included in this group
Last edited by Cdaniels on Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005 Posts: 3898 Location: Pittsburgh
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Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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Really? Funny. I can remember, several times, sitting in my little elementary school classes learning which countries are in which continent, and Russia was very definitely part of Asia.
I'd agree that St. Petersburg appears to be a much more European city than Moscow -- it "feels" European, if you know what I mean -- but my grandfather is from Moscow and would curse you blind if you called his city "European."
And you're right -- it is a shame that our geography system tries to classify everything so rigidly. So I learned Russia was part of Asia. So what? The important thing to know is that Russia's culture is very different from Japan's or Thailand's. Similarly, yeah, Mexico is "technically" considered North America -- but its language, culture, and heritage would place it squarely alongside Central & South America, and that's what kids need to know more. Culture, to me, is far more important to be teaching these kids than forcing them to memorize rigidly-drawn borders and the exact location of each of the Polynesian Islands (for an example.) |
From what one Russian told me, that in her high school they taught Europe/Asia as one continent that was called Eurasia. So in Russia they learn one less continent than we do.
Another interesting question is which continent does Central America really belong to? If you look at some maps, only U.S., Canada, and Mexico are listed under North America. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005 Posts: 3898 Location: Pittsburgh
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Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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Look at the yahoo website. Only U.S., Greenland, Canada, and Mexico are listed as part of North America.
http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-577820-map_of_north_america-i
In school I learned that there are 7 continents: Africa, Antarctica, Asia, Australia, Europe, North America, and South America.
but from what I know some countries learn other classifications like Eurasian and Oceania
What have you learned in school? |
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Guy Courchesne

Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City
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Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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I learned it the same way you did, making Central America not a continent, but where to draw the line for Europe and Asia?
And what about Iceland? |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005 Posts: 3898 Location: Pittsburgh
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Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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Or maybe North America and South America should just be called the Americas since only by man's manipulation of nature are they separate masses.
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| I learned it the same way you did, making Central America not a continent |
Guy, but what about the fact that when one talks about North America, none of the Central American countries are really ever included. I bet we could find statistical data about North America that does not include any countries besides the U.S., Mexico, and Canada. Go figure!!! |
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Guy Courchesne

Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City
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Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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Even then, ask Mexicans what they they think and you get odd responses. some say all of Mexico is NA, some say none of it, and other say you draw the line south of Mexico City, splitting the country.
I think pure geography freaks would sum it up to continental plates...
Deja vu...we've had this conversation before... |
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Cdaniels
Joined: 21 Mar 2005 Posts: 663 Location: Dunwich, Massachusetts
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Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:21 am Post subject: Scandinavia |
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| Iceland is definitely European. Often people don't think of Scandinavia as European- Certainly Scandinavia has important cultural and economic interests that seperate it from the rest of Europe. (Big, hearty breakfasts come to mind!) Greenland (officially, Kalaallit Nunaat) was granted homerule in 1979 after being a Danish colony. There is a despute about who owns Hans Island Canada or Greenland/Denmark because it will be of much importance if the climate changes and Acrtic Ice melts away. |
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naturegirl321

Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 9041 Location: home sweet home
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Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:55 am Post subject: |
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| Here in Peru, if you ask people if they have been to America they say yes. I'm refering to the USA, but they say yes because they live in South America and think that the North and the SOuth are one continent divided into two parts. |
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Perpetual Traveller

Joined: 29 Aug 2005 Posts: 651 Location: In the Kak, Japan
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Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:22 am Post subject: Re: Scandinavia |
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| Cdaniels wrote: |
| Iceland is definitely European. Often people don't think of Scandinavia as European- Certainly Scandinavia has important cultural and economic interests that seperate it from the rest of Europe. (Big, hearty breakfasts come to mind!) |
Somehow I don't think the state of breakfast is a great way to try dividing Europe as it can differ completely not only from country to country but also region to region. Scandinavia being different because they partake in a big hearty b'fast? Have you never heard of a 'Full English'??? Not to mention the spread you get in Switzerland and some parts of Germany. I have to go now, I'm getting hungry!
PT |
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Justin Trullinger

Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Posts: 3110 Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
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Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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How many continents were you taught there are?
I'm curious about this, as it seems to vary a lot from place to place. I was taught 7; North America, South America, Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia, and Antarctica.
Most of the Europeans who I've discussed this with were taught 5; America as one continent, Antarctica omitted.
For me, the geographical separation between North and South America seems enough to justify it being two continents, whereas the line between Europe and Asia I've always considered a little less clear. (My impression is that they were named at a time when leading intellectuals didn't agree about where, or even if, they met in the middle. And the cultures are very different...)
But I was certainly taught that Russia was in Europe. (I am American, by the way. Why would anyone assume otherwise?) And there are many slavic nations within Europe, including Slovakia. I probably wouldn't consider Turkey to be in Europe, although they always seem to have good entrants in the Eurovision song competition.
If "EU" is a criteria for "European," then it's spreading, and now includes a lot of what was "Eastern Europe" when I was in school. Also, where does that leave Switzerland? It's not EU, but it seems clearly to be surrounded by countries that most would consider "European."
It's a funny world...
Justin |
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MELEE

Joined: 22 Jan 2003 Posts: 2583 Location: The Mexican Hinterland
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Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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Mexicans seem to get confused between continents and world cup soccer regions!
They count Australia together with Asia! |
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denise

Joined: 23 Apr 2003 Posts: 3419 Location: finally home-ish
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Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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| MELEE wrote: |
They count Australia together with Asia! |
The Miss World pageant did that! Uh, not that I watched the Miss World pageant... Go Iceland! Oh, and... OK, so I did watch it!... the Taiwanese beauty queen hopeful was from Chinese Taipei. The contest was held in China--go figure.
I am really trying to train myself to say that I am from the United States, not from America, because, as one of my students in Chile put it, "Here we are all American." I certainly don�t mean any offense, and I�m not sure it�s so bad anyway since most people here would label me American, but still, I�m working on it. The trouble is that while naming the country is OK, there�s really no easy label for the people! Our prolific Roger (or formerly prolific--where is he?!?) has in the past labeled us USAnians. Kinda silly, but at least it doesn�t imply any "American arrogance" or what have you.
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005 Posts: 3898 Location: Pittsburgh
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Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| For me, the geographical separation between North and South America seems enough to justify it being two continents |
huh, wasn't North and South America seperated by man!!! I guess if we make a canal around New Jersey we will have another new continent. That will give us 8 North America, South America, Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia, Antarctica and the continent of trash(New Jersey). |
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Luna Chica
Joined: 04 Sep 2005 Posts: 177 Location: Trujillo, Peru
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Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:30 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah I came up against this one with my father-in-law. Being Australian we are pretty ezxcited about the fact that we are the only island nation that is also a continent. He would not believe that it was and reeled off the list of continents he had learned at school which came to 6 and I reeled of my list including Australia which came to 7. We had to agree to disagree because neither one of us could accept the other was right. BTW I know I really was je je. |
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