Job Discussion Forums

[gaijinalways]

Yeah, I second that, not speaking is definately not a gesture, but it certainly might lead to some gestures being used. Amusing, but my Japanese wife often wants a verbal response rather than a hand gesture, which when I don't feel like speaking (which is probably not often, she sometimesthinks something is wrong, rather than I am just absorbed reading something, maybe this forum!) I might use.

An interesting example of silence. At a language school I won't name, a teacher started a company class lesson and he noticed no one greeted him back after he said hello. So, being a stubborn type, he decided to see how long he would wait before someone responded. In a class of ten, the first lesson went by (40 minutes) with no one speaking! Then during the 5 minute break, one of the students called the office (or had someone else do it), as the teacher got a call from his branch about a student complaint about the first class!

No, I think the gestures fill in more as more than just entertainment, as students start to realize the same gesture might have quite different meanings depending on the location where they are used and also the nationality of the person that the symbol is displayed to (some of my students have never travelled abroad, including the adult ones).

This of course can easily be extended to language (both written and spoken) as well, as some expressions are quite different in intention, depending on the native language and culture of the message sender. The common comment in Japanese that 'Someone is naive' is often used by students to imply someone is innocent, a person not corrupted or having bad intentions rather than the more common English language meaning of someone who is ignorant of some matters that might be thought of as 'common sense' knowledge within that culture.

[Nismo]

The hand waving palm-down to beckon someone used everyday.
Pointing at one's nose to represent "me" is used fairly often.
Holding up your pinky to represent girlfriend is rarely used, and usually as a joke or the "Yankee" type who thinks they are too cool to use the word.
Holding up your thumb to represent boyfriend - I have never actually seen this in practice, and if you ask the average Japanese person about it they usually don't know what you are talking about.

Putting one's hand up in a Karate-chop-pose in front of their face is used to represent "sorry", or "I am about to pass through". I see this fairly often, especially when people pass between you and wherever your eyes are fixed.

Japanese don't use an individual finger to point, usually. They usually use their hands open-palmed with their fingers fully extended.

The exception to the pointing-with-an-individual-finger rule is that when pointing at one's own belongings (say, a textbook) they use the middle finger. They also scratch their head/face with their middle finger, which made me think everyone was flipping me off for the first month I lived here.

Those are just my observations. Silence is used as an intensifier in conversation, as well as a sign of disagreement, and they rarely use filler words when they are thinking, which completely contradicts the barrage of "hai hai"s and "sou desu ne"s that fill a conversation as their opposite is speaking.

[6810]

**Don't forget the forefinger and thumb making an "ok" circle...

except inverted so that your pinky is parallel to your body...

this one means "money"

**Grabbing the end of your nose with your fist = tengu = bragging about yourself.

**Circling your fist on an open upward facing palm in order to represent grinding sesame seeds.

Which actually means that some one is using someone else for another purpose.

I see these farily frequently in Japan

[abufletcher]

[kdynamic]

6810: thanks! Those were useful comments.

I have seen the boyfriend girlfriend gestures used a lot. Sometimes if it's too loud in a club to hear easily and some guy wants to know if he's going to get a beatdown for trying to mac on me, he'll make the boyfriend gesture and look at me with a questionmark on his face, clearly asking if I have one.

I had two different people make use of the devil horns one in conversation last night.

So they are used often enough to make knwoing them useful.

[abufletcher]

[gaijinalways]

I disagree

So basically this guys "experiment" proves nothing.

I would say his class was unusually timid to wait that long for him to speak again! Of course, I wouldn't say he was kind to the students!

[abufletcher]

[abufletcher]

And remember that after a certain point they would no longer be "waiting for him to speak again." They KNEW what the game was and weren't going to be playing. After some critical point they were all just sitting there in silence with no expectation on either parties' part that the other party would be first to reinitiate a state of talk.

A silence is strictly speaking only a silence if there is a particular party who is expected to be speaking in the first place. We don't think about the "silences" that take place on trains because there is no expectation of talk to begin with.

[sethness]

Despite AbuFletcher's belittling, hand gestures ARE in fact quite important in Asia. I've lived in several countries, and seen a large # of misunderstandings ...even fistfights... break out because of misinterpreted hand gestures.

For example, in America the "come here" gesture is dune palm-up, with one finger waggling. IN Asia, that's how you call a slave, or act aggressive, like "come here, you little mofo !"

In Japan and the Philippines, say "come here" with the palm down, using 4 fingers.

In Korea, it's palm down and pull your whole arm toward you.

In Saipan (CNMI), there are a lot of Americans and Asians living as contract-workers. I've seen a Philipino chef come after an American chef with a knife, after the American used the wrong "come here" gesture.

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The "boyfriend" gesture in Japan is to raise your thumb or point at your thumb. The "girlfriend" gesture is done with the pinky.

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Other things can be quite subtle... for example, making eye contact in Japan is unnerving. It's much more common to look away while talking.

For another example, there's a way of squat-sitting in Japan that's considered "aggressive". It's a thing that "bosozoku" (teenage biker gang members) do when they're looking for a fight.

It's something a westerner wouldn't pick up on.

Yet another example: In Japan, touching your hair in general and especially while eating is considered dirty.

And one last example: Eating noises. In Taiwan, when you eat you should eat LOUDLY with lots of lip-smacking noises. This is evidence that you're enjoying the meal. Yet, in Japan, eating quietly is the rule except if one's eating noodles or old men are drinking hot liquids. In both those cases, loud slurping is the rule. You can see this Japanese slurping in action in the movie "Mister Baseball", starring the odious Tom Selleck.

[abufletcher]

[sushi]

The anthropological term for Asian cultures is "High Context" and that for Western cultures is "Low Context". The high context thing is the ability to read the intentions of somebody else without them being verbalized. The low context thing of course is the need to explain everything without omitting any details.

[gaijinalways]

Hmm, but this doesn't explain the numerous misunderstandings that occur even between Japanese. Certainly, in cultures like Japan, a lot is left unsaid, and that may say more than what is said. But, there are times when people are very direct and specific here, they just aren't the norm.

And likewise in America. There are times when people are purposely vague, it's called the use of tact. I still agree with the anthropological terms, but only up to a point as they are generalizations and aspects like personality, your relationship with that person, the environment where the conversation takes places, the context (what was said or gestured before), etc. will always be factors in deciding how to read language, whether verbal or physical (or the absence of either).

[abufletcher]