Job Discussion Forums

[Nismo]

I've recently been border-line stalked by a guy who "has many foreign friends" and "wants to speak English with many foreigners." It's all right for me to be a friend, but never will I be someone's "foreign friend".

Especially in the big cities, I'm sure you get talked at (not 'to') by the English bandits, so eager to maximize their English skills on you, the English-speaking-robot.

Why do Japanese assume every non-Asian foreigner speaks English? Why do they further assume every non-Asian foreigner wants to speak English with them? So, what is your defense?

I usually just respond in either French or German, depending on what mood I'm in.

English Bandit: "Hello! Where are you from?"
Me: *optional* "Spreken zie deutsch?" / "Parlez vous francais?"

(I use German when I want to scare them)

[gaijinalways]

Croatian might be better, as some students know other more common European languages!

[JimDunlop2]

There's nothing new under the sun.... Maybe some day, with Japan's falling birth rate, we can only hope that it will someday become a multi-cultural country, much like Canada, Australia, or the U.S. Then, and ONLY then would I say that this problem will cease to exist.

I've really become sensitive to the whole "foreigner" issue. I don't mean to threadjack, (and I hope I'm not) but for me, it all started with the word "gaijin." It's no secret on Dave's (or in real life) that I'm offeneded by that word.... But by the same token, I've also started taking some offense even to the word "gaikokujin" and the English word "foreigner."

It's not so much the definition of the word that bugs me -- yes, I am indeed "One who is from a foreign country or place" (according to the American Heritage Dictionary).... The problem lies within the fact that the word is used to stereotype and categorize people as being either Japanese or NOT... With huge emphasis on the NOT. Canada is a land of immigrants, and my mother used to work for a settlement agency (and she herself emigrated to Canada many years ago) but I don't think we EVER, in the entire time I was growing up, used the word "foreigner" to refer to someone who was not born in the country. In fact, I think that even in other contexts it's frequently used in a negative light... In the U.S. if you say "alien" it's usually meant in the context of "illegal alien" which brings forth certain negative images. Likewise, the word "auslander" in German brings images of neo-nazi groups protesting and chanting "Deutschland fur Deutschlanders, auslanders aus!" In Japan, "gaikokujin" also summons forth certain assumptions that are often based on prejudice rather than fact...

Anyway, to get back to Nismo's issue.... I think that the key, perhaps, to tackling the "English bandit" issue is to challenge the whole "exoticism" that draws such curiosity. With people like who Nismo is describing, I tend to INSIST on speaking in Japanese and NEVER in English, no matter how hard it is for me. Whenever they ask me questions about "my country" my answer is almost always that it's the same as in Japan. I try to make my "foreignness" as mundane and boring as possible in the hopes of removing the itching desire to associate with me because I MIGHT be DIFFERENT.....

Eg.

"In your country, do you have natto?"

"Hai. Aru-yo. Nihon to Kanado to zembu de daitai onaji mono aru."

(excusing me my Japanese errors)....

But I do tend to find that it helps in limiting the number of people I get flocking to associate with someone who's different... That, and I almost NEVER have free time evenings and weekends. Between family, friends and hobbies I can usually turn down most offers to do something or go somewhere quite safely.

[Glenski]

Friend of mine got away from such types by creating his own language -- which amounted to nothing more than names of cities in his home state. Imagine the following "conversation":

Bandit: Excuse me, can you speak English?
Friend: Anoka? Pipestone sugar hills, etooooo St.Cloud Hennepin. Ok?

Bandit: (puzzled) Excuse me?
Friend: Hennepin!!! (gestures wildly) Fridley Fridley Cass Lake. Chaska Rochester???

Bandit: Ummm, thank you. (leaves)

[Gordon]

You could always say you will be their "friend" for 10,000/hr and they can meet you in a coffee shop. That will get them to leave.

[Hoser]

I love the word gaijin!! I use it all the time-usually when referring to myself as a 'stupid gaijin'

I suppose that you have probably lived here a lot longer than I have though and probably have a japanese wife and family.

[JimDunlop2]

HAHAHAHA! Beautiful, Glenski.... Truly classic. I'll definitely try that sometime.

I actually have tried something like that before too... Except not to English bandits because they usually speak more English than the average "Hiroki". But random english words tends to have the same effect. Works well if you want to confuse someone.

Eg. "Chain-link fence screwdriver teacup mouspad. Hand towels printer trousers lake? Stethoscope paper shredder!"

[JimDunlop2]

Hoser.... I suspect that using "gaijin" to refer to oneself is tantamount to the American hip-hop equivalent of African Americans referring to each other as "n*gga." Laughing at yourself is one thing, but when it comes out of someone else's mouth it often ceases to be so funny....

[Gordon]

Jim, why does gaikojin bother you? What would you like them to call you, if they don't know you are Canadajin?
You can't compare Canada to Japan, it is not even the same ballpark as far as acceptance and tolerance of cultures. I don't lose sleep over it any more.

[JimDunlop2]

Gordon, if I said I had a good alternative to "gaikokujin" I'd be lying to you. I don't. I wish I did...

This does not descibe me, but it just doesn't sit well with me (for some reason), that even someone who has a fair complexion but has been born in Japan to at least one Japanese parent will still get called a foreigner, complete with the same comments about how "jouzu" their Japanese language or chopstick skills are, questions on when they will return to their "home country" and be labelled everywhere as "sono gaikokujin-sama" even if it's meant in a perfectly respectable way. It has been on my mind more so recently than ever before, as I teach a number of elementary school kids who do fall into that category...

Obviously, whenever we are faced with something that doesn't jive with our understanding of the "natural order" of things, we are thrown off-kilter. For instance, the first time I heard a Vietnamese lady speak to me in fluent Czech.... Or when I met a (natural) blond-haired, blue-eyed Mexican fellow. But never before have I thought so much about physical appearance as being a sign of "foreignness" until I came to Japan...

We dislike being misunderstood. For instance, if someone mis-quotes us and says that we uttered something which we didn't, our natural tendency is to correct them. I think that the reason why the word "gaikokujin" bothers me is for the same reason -- because when someone says it, I immediately feel misunderstood. I feel like they immediately assume that: - I'm American; - I speak English; - I don't know about Japanese culture or history; - I can't understand what they are saying; - where I come from everything is different; etc... The natural assumption is, that outside of Japan, everything MUST, by definition be different. This is reflected directly in the questions I get asked by my students. They are genuinely surprised when they realized that North Americans also enjoy 7-11 convenience stores, Nintendo, play dodgeball during gym class, eat rice, have Internet access or live in houses. My wish for this country isn't even that people stop using the word "gaikokujin" but that they might start realizing that people living outside Japan might be a lot more similar to them than they care to realize.

One poignant experience happened to me last year, when I asked a Japanese Jr. High School teacher who had just returned from his first trip to the United States, what surprised him the most about the U.S. His reply was that, "mothers in America have the same fears and worries and they care for their children as much as mothers in Japan." For me, somehow I fail to see how someone might even think that this would be different in another country...

I suppose I would be much more at ease if, instead of "foreigner" people (who have never met me for instance) would say: "that tall, brown-haired guy" or "the one with the glasses and leather coat" or even "the one with the funny English accent when he speaks Japanese" instead of the convenient, catch-all-phrase. Of course I don't expect that to happen, but all I'm saying is, that it would be nice if people started to think more in those terms rather than: "are they born here or not."

[Brooks]

this is an insular country.
So I can forgive ignorance.
But what bugs me is when Japanese people know that I am from America, they still call me or refer to me as a gaijin.

When I worked In Morocco, Poland, and Russia, I was called an American, but in Japan I am called a foreigner.

the Us vs. Them mentality is just too entrenched.

[ndorfn]

I'm not worried about the term gaijin anymore. better than in central america where everyone calls you "gringo" even though you're not american.

What's worse, being labelled as a foreigner, or as an American?

To the OP, of course I understand your point, but I must admit I was sometimes guilty of doing the same thing when I spent some time back home. I'd enjoy talking to a Japanese person on the train just to practice.

And at least it's not as bad as some countries where the people are less shy and always trying to conversationally grope you.

[abufletcher]

I've had a creepy dinner or two where my wife and I are invited to some usually mid-age couple's home and are served a sumptious banquet of all kinds of typical Japanese food. Each time it has been a very impressive spread and obviously involved a lot of cost and preparation. Then after the meal we are ushered into "the parlor" where we are then shown snapshots of the couple with every gaijin they have ever meet. And then of course it's OUR turn to be photographed. As I said it's a little creepy to imagine yourself as a permenant fixture in someone's gaijin collection. I try to stay away from the gaijin collectors these days.

Still, I don't think they are trying to be creepy. They are usually very good-natured (but ill-informed) people who just have no idea how strange they seem to the people they invite.

[mrjohndub]

[abufletcher]

I think most Japanese operate on a simple assumption: "If we Japanese do it/use it, it is therefore unique to Japan."

Example: Almost every year when I ask my students to bring in 10 small items that are unique to Japan and somehow representative of its culture, there's always some idiot who brings in a toothpick.