Job Discussion Forums

[Serendipity]

An interesting thread - always comforting to know others feel the same pain.

As for Japanese people expecting ALL foreigners to speak English, it's annoying until you realise one thing - so do we. Would any of you honestly go up to a new foreigner and say "Do you speak English?" It's a safe rule of thumb.

Due to being pretty uptight about these things, I used to fire French at the "English Bandits" but.. I don't know.. it just feels a bit childish and proud. Now I just fire back in Japanese )

If I hear those words "nihongo ga jouzu desune" I just say "anata mo!" It weeds out the ones who actually have a sense of humour, and down right dumbfounds the ones who don't - a very useful division.

As for "gaijin" it makes me feel like I'm from Mars. I used to reply with "ASIAN jin"

At the end of the day, we are the losers if we let any of this get to us because nothing is going to change accept our mood. We've just got to get over it and find interesting ways of speaking/acting to keep us amused and sane.

[mrjohndub]

You know, I just thought about my comment, and I guess it is possible that the guy meant it as a metaphor. Sort of, 'Wow, we are all alike after all. It was surprising and refreshing to see.'

But, then I remind myself that Japanese are not ought to use subtlety when speaking in English. Maybe in Japanese, but never in English.

[kitano]

I had a related bizzare experience last week. I entered my students apartment building and there was two older ladies and the caretaker. One of the ladies said something in Japanese(I thought) and I wasnt really listening so I just said Konichiwa. As I waited for the elevator the same lady kept talking and I realized she was speaking German (no wonder I didnt catch it the first time!) and I instinctively said the only German word I know-gutentag. I was stuck in this situation for a few more moments as the elevator came down to the first floor, she kept talking in German and looking at me. Finally the door opened and I gave a little bow and escaped. One of the strangest experiences Ive had in Japan for a while.

[abufletcher]

[pnksweater]

I'm with Jim on this one. I don't like being called a gaijin, gaikokujin, gajin-sama or any other version of "not-us". Sure, sometimes it does help save time an confusion, but I'd rather just be known as a person with a name.

I don't speak English with someone unless they're someone I know well and know don't care which language I use. That's the quickest way to discourage any English leeches. That, or tell them my rate.

As for assuming that all foreigners speak English, I will usually start out in Japanese if I don't know what language someone speaks. However, you rarely have to guess. Most people in pubs are already talking to someone.

[JimDunlop2]

That's true in Japan -- I almost always start my conversations with everyone in Japanese -- even if they look like they might be from America or another country.... Then if they give me a blank look, I try English, French or Spanish...

There are many Peruvians, Filipinos, Brazilians, Iranians, and other non-English-speaking cultures living in Japan. They are much more common than you'd think. Especially in the city where I live... But Japanese is the one language that we can agree on since I neither speak Portuguese or Tagalog and my Spanish is getting poorer by the day. (Actually, people from the Philipines tend to have pretty good English)...

On the positive side of speaking Japanese with others whose native language is not Japanese, I usually find them MUCH easier to understand. Like me, they tend to use simpler sentence structures and vocabulary. They also tend to speak a little clearer instead of the native-mumble (we do it too in English -- especially kids or teens). Sometimes even my wife and I converse in Japanese, though both of us are Canadian. It was SOOOOOOO handy the last time we visited Canada and wanted to have a private conversation. We arranged a birthday cake for my mother's birthday completely in her presence and of course no one suspected something was amiss.

[Rorschach]

The gym I go to had a real English Bandit. Usually I am the only foreigner there (must have circulated around) and one day he showed up and started speaking English to me. Thereafter he insisted on my number and kept calling me to go out with him and find women. I was a little surprised to say the least. After a while I just let the calls go unanswered and he eventually just went away. What bothered me most is that when I tried to practice Japanese he turned a deaf ear. He was a nice guy but I could tell he was just using me to practice his English. I still go to the gym but I don't use the people to practice Japanese with, that would just be plain rude.

[markle]

For those railing against the whole 'gaijin' thing have you ever lived in another country beside Japan? If you had you might realise that there is nothing particularly unique about it.

[parrothead]

This kind of ignorance (or ignore-ance) isn't unique to Japan. Many people in English speaking countries often group foreign Japanese, Chinese, Vietnamese, Korean people, etc as simply "Asian" (or worse yet "oriental"!!!!! like a rug) without consideration to their nationality. This isn't much different than a Japanese person saying "gaijin" to identify a person from somewhere else.

[abufletcher]

Gol darn furners an' alens!

[JimDunlop2]

[markle]

Jim,
Czech Republic doesn't count. In fact most of Europe doesn't count, too much shared cultural baggage.

[JimDunlop2]

Markle, if "this" country doesn't count, nor does "that" one, it kinda erodes the point you're trying to make, doesn't it? You then have to be a lot more specific in which countries we will have had to have lived to satisfy your requirement, since most of Europe doesn't count.

In any event, I don't think it's necessary to have lived in other countries in order to be offended by xenophobia. I think the only thing that comes out of this particular line of reasoning, is that people who have lived in other countries where this is acceptable and common are less surprised by it than those who haven't. At least that's what I'm getting from your comments...

But just because you're de-sensitized to it, doesn't make it any more acceptable and that people who are shocked/surprised by it should be discouraged from speaking out against it.

I'm not for an attitude of "I used to feel this way too... But since I've lived in other countried, I've grown to realize it's very common. As a result, I've grown to accept it and it doesn't bother me anymore -- you shouldn't let it bother you." If the world always had such resigned acceptance of human rights and social issues, the civil rights movement would have never taken place, and nothing would ever change.

[J.]

I edited this since it was a duplicate. Can't figure out how to delete it.

[J.]

I'm glad you brought this up, Jim. I do think it's important to talk about and at least try to change the offensive language used to distance people by calling them "foreigners". Actually I dislike this English word more even than the Japanese equivalents; perhaps because I have to listen to it more from my own students. At least I did until I began making it a teaching point. I let my students, who in this case are mainly adults, know that the term is not acceptable and is often regarded as a pejorative and that beyond that it is unfriendly, making people designated that way feel they are being excluded from the rest of the society they live in. I try to get them to empathize a bit by using examples. After that, if they use the word, I gently remind them a few times, then if they use it again, point out that I don't like the term. Yes, it makes for a few uncomfortable moments sometimes( though I try to keep it light), but I feel I have to start somewhere. I guess, as a teacher, I feel its partly my responsibility to educate others about this. Maybe I can't do much alone, but if other teachers here joined me, maybe in another 20 years we might take a bite out of this kind of thing. :)