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[JimDunlop2]

As you may know, I used to teach at two junior high schools, alternating between both, a month at a time. Since I was transferred in September, I've been teaching elementary schools. It's a different world. First of all, I teach at 13 schools, 3 days at a time. So whereas before I was more or less part of the teaching staff, attending enkais, staff meetings, etc, I am now a perpetual visitor and guest at every school, even though I am there every other month.

First, the commentary section. When I was new to teaching in the public school system, I had no idea what the best way to discipline my students was. I tried to approach things the Western way, which of course failed miserably, and I was lucky to escape with my pride and reputation intact. I quickly learned that not only was I not supposed to discipline the students, neither was any other teacher other than their homeroom teacher, really for that matter. Eg. If the students had different teachers for science or art or music and there were a behaviour problem, those teachers would not be likely to take discipline into their own hands as they would go straight to the homeroom teacher to get the problem resolved. There were those teachers of course, who would take matters into their own hands, but only to a limited level. In Japan, the homeroom teacher IS God. There are even parents who cannot control their own children so they will phone their childrens' homeroom teacher (no joke!) who will even come to the home of the students to help discipline them. Bad parenting? Maybe.. But definitely very Japanese...

In a way, to put the onus on the homeroom teacher is much easier on me. I don't have to scream and lose my voice, or raise my blood pressure in anger. I just catch the homeroom teacher in the hallway and tell them that so-and-so needs an attitude adjustment, or that the class is being a lot noisier than usual, or whatever the issue may be. It usually gets resolved by the time I teach them the next week, and if not, the chain-of-command is the correct recourse. Eg. If repeated talks with the homeroom teacher fail, take it up with the head teacher for that grade level. If that fails, take it up with the head of the teaching staff. Then, above that are only the vice-principal and principal (in that order) whom you should never have to bother with discipline issues unless specifically asked by them or requested to do so. In one of my schools, the kocho-sensei asked me directly how my class went (that I just finished teaching) and unfortunately it hadn't been so hot -- and I make a lousy liar.... So I'm afraid that not only did the class "get it" but maybe even their teacher... And I shudder at the thought, but quite possibly even the entire chain of command, going down. Remember: $h!t rolls downhill, and picks up speed fast! It's call the snowball effect.... Oops!

Well, in elementary school, the structure is similar... The biggest difference is that their homeroom teacher also usually teaches the students most (or all) the subjects, so the homeroom teachers are your JTEs when you come in. The sheer number of Japanese teachers I'm forced to work with now is very high, giving way to a large latitude in classroom management techniques. On the whole, however, things work out quite well. The only drawback is that I never work with an "English teacher" anymore like I did in Jr. High, so the English level of most of the teachers is very, very low. Quite often, not much higher than the students. This in turn is cool, because the teachers aren't bored by my lessons, but frequently take part with their students, having first exposure to many parts of the English language, and doing it in a fun way that they may have never experienced when they were going through school....

However, being a permanent guest has its drawbacks. The kids, after getting used to you in the first few visits, tend to look at you more as their buddy rather than a teacher, or somewhere between a friend and a substitute teacher -- neither position being one you want to be in, if you are trying to conduct a lesson. Most recently I had a rather unpleasant experience..... One of my grade six classes had a HUGE attitude problem! (Ha! You may think. Like THAT'S any surprise...) Well, actually, it is. In all the thirteen schools where I teach, MOST of my grade six kids have NO attitude problems whatsoever, and the ones that do exist are usually restricted to individual students (who can often be ignored) but even they are few and far-in-between. I have not had the misfortune of difficult grade-6 classes the way Richard describes them on his GenkiEnglish website. Except for this class. They were awful! I couldn't get them to do ANYTHING. They wouldn't participate, they wouldn't answer questions, they wouldn't repeat after me, they wouldn't do ANYTHING and even their homeroom teacher couldn't seem to get them going -- even though he was actively participating in my lesson and we were both teaching by example, providing models rather than explanations (so the kids don't just "give up" and say, "the reason why we don't participate is because we don't understand what the teacher is saying." Too bad I do the same lessons with kids as young as grade 2. They, and the other grade 6 classes seem to understand just fine). Anyway, I digress.

Unfortunately, the lesson I had chosen to do required fairly high participation, and the previous two grade-6 classes had gone off without a hitch. I was forced to stop my lesson in the middle, (during an appropriate time when we were changing activities) and I pulled the homeroom teacher into an empty, adjacent classroom. I explained to him that I didn't think I could complete today's lesson because of the attitude problem the students had, and that my plans would fall flat if I attempted them, since up to this point things had been going so badly. I then asked him what I should do, if he could help me or if I should just wrap things up now and return to the staff room. He told me he'd talk to them.... Well, as you might expect (those of you who teach in public schools have probably experienced this yourselves) the homeroom teacher just LOST it on them. He was screaming in the harshest yakuza-Japanese I've heard in a long time (a flawless demonstration of meirei-kei, complete with rolling "r"s, etc.... ). After about 10-15 mins of this, the whole class looked like they were near tears. Again, this is a COMMON method of discipline in Japan...

Now, here's my question section of this post....

When you have witnessed such a discipline session, what do you think should be your next move......

a) Call it a class and end it early, emphasizing that we'll "try again" next time

b) put on a smile and press on as though nothing had just happened (hard to do, since the classroom atmosphere is REALLY subdued at this point. If you thought they didn't want to participate BEFORE...... The difference is that now they have the threat of being yelled at if they DON'T. aka. forced participation)...

c) ask the JTE whether you should pursue a) or b)

d) Continue, despite the subdued atmosphere but perhaps change your lesson plan to reflect this and do something completely different than what you intended. (Keeping in mind that a homeroom-yelling session usually shaves off a good 10-15 minutes from your class, and if you're lucky, there may only be 5-10 minutes left in the class to do anything -- an awkward time to say the least).

e) I have a different answer/approach.

If you're inclined to participate in this thread, I'd like everyone to choose an answer and provide some commentary (especially if your answer is (e) -- to approach things in a way that I didn't address)...

Cheers, everyone!

JD

[guest of Japan]

Hi Jim.

I'm in a private high school and I think it's safe to say that it is a different kettle of fish.

I team teach. With 1st year oral communication classes I am the lead teacher. At the high school level only the old teachers and the gym teachers will break out into the yakuza style discipline mode.

When this has happened I tended to carry on with the lesson I had planned. I'm careful not to act in a way which is opposite the the scolding recently delivered. My demeanor tends to portray frustration and disappointment.

I'm also a lot more hands on with discipline, but that's probably only possible due to a difference in situation.

I'm sure this hasn't helped much, but maybe the ball will roll a little bit.

[fluffyhamster]

It's hard to pick an answer when you're assuming that we have all ("just") 'witnessed such a discipline session'. I think we need to backtrack a bit and make sense of the "build-up" a little more...

I haven't taught that many elementary classes, but enough to have detected a drop-off in participation in some sixth-graders...but it's not like there was even one let alone two+ little kiddies sitting their with 666 visible at their blonde hairline and all with eyes a-glowing (allusions to The Omen, and Village of the Damned ) - I mean, if it's your first class ever or in quite a while with them, maybe they won't be up for anything too ambitious (even if it is something that second-graders could manage - might that imply that at least a minority of these sixth graders might be bored or think it too easy? It's a possibility, perhaps)...that is, it can take a while to (re)establish a "working" relationship with a class...

So, it's kind of hard to know what to say until we know what you were expecting of them specifically, but I'll grant you that some classes can, because of one or two negative rather than positive kids, become unreasonably unresponsive. In that kind of situation, I once myself became the "bad cop", partly because I didn't see why the JTE should have all the "fun", and the fortunate upshot of my approach was that what I wanted to say and felt was generally what got echoed by the JTE when she then paraphrased me and had her own go at them too (bear in mind that this was at that sh*te unpleasant hole of a private J-SHS, though). I guess I instinctively don't leave it to the JTE to decide what they should do FOR ME, I kind of sense(d) that they will then do what THEY would do to "handle" it (thus potentially going way beyond what we the AET wanted done).

Generally I go for a b) > d) > e) chain of options. Flexibility is the key, so doing too much of b) won't win the students around, but equally, chucking the lesson plan aside too obviously isn't to be recommended either. I try to spot chances to go off at slight tangents, then move away from the lesson plan quietly and hopefully not too noticeably...it helps if you can segue into a good game at this point LOL. "Be prepared to abandon ship, but make sure the lifeboats are well-provisioned". As for e) itself, I can dig up some "discipline" sort of threads that I contributed to from the Teacher forums if you're interested.

Good point about being 'careful not to act in a way which is opposite the the scolding recently delivered', GOJ, although it could well be impossible for some of us more wimpy AETs to not also look just a tad embarrassed in addition.

[JimDunlop2]

Well, I can appreciate that it takes classes some time to adjust to my presence if they haven't seen me for a while... But at the same time, this class were borderline-bad from day 1, and funny thing is -- I have taught the exact-same-identical lesson to at least 22 classes prior to them, of which 5 or so were at the grade 6 level as well... I teach roughly 16 unique elementary classes a week, each of which has a different "feel" to it.... SO for that reason I tend to think that I was not too far "out of touch" with the needs of that class. If I have 21 good classes and 1 bad, I would probably start looking outward before I would inward...

No, I think it's this class in particular that has some bad dynamics going on. It didn't start with me, and it will continue long after I'm gone. In fact, I think the homeroom teacher actually was LOOKING for an appropriate excuse to yell at the kids -- but the right catalyst never came along until I had a chat with him.

Anyway, what's done is done. I do pretty well in the way of maintaing a balance of order and fun in my classes. No, my main reason for questioning other teachers is to find out whether they have also been exposed to homeroom-teacher-losing-his-marbles-style discipline, and how they've reacted to/picked up from that point... I don't think you need to have "just" witnessed this... I presume (and maybe I presume too much) that the seasoned teachers here will have at some point been in the classroom when the JTE was giving them heck...

I mean when he's done yelling, -- you have the complete, 100% undivided attention of everyone in the room, with every eye fixed on you.... And you could hear a pin drop! And participation AND putting on a good face from that point onwards (both on the teacher's and student's part) is definitely forced... It's a rather unnatural position to be in, n'est-ce pas?

[fluffyhamster]

OK, so my "chain of options" was more what I'd do with a difficult class generally (well before taking any JTE aside)...but, if a JTE did lose it big time, what I'd next do would depend on whether I had "invited" the JTE to "do something". Seeing as you "asked" for the guy's "advice" you could hardly choose a) (leave him to clear up "his own" mess as you slink off back to the staffroom - that'd probably get the guy hating you, at least secretly!), and c) would be almost as unadvisable (leading as it does to showing you are even thinking about a)). B) though would be tough for me personally, I'd probably twiddle my thumbs thoughtfully before finally selecting d). Yup, that would be it, d), I reckon (much as I'd be tempted to choose a) still...and there may well be some AETs who'd argue that a) would be the "best" option, 'we'll "try again" next time, eh', which I can see the attraction of!).

What did you yourself do, Jim? (No shame if you chose a), but it'd then be interesting to hear how relations are now going at the school, especially with the JTE. The Japanese can seem to "ignore" and "forget" these kinds of "little" upsets quite "well", probably moreso than they would a total avoidance of the aftermath if the AET "bailed" completely; the class could even end up blaming a 'bailing' AET for everything, as opposed to forgiving and forgetting, admiring even, a 'ganbare-ing' AET, not that the JTE would be held in contempt for long in either case, I bet).

[JimDunlop2]

What did I do? I figured that someone would eventually ask me...

Actually, I did b) and then a). When the JTE finally finished giving the students a good bullocking, we only had 10 minutes left in the class, so I continued with my lesson plan as best I could for about 5 minutes, but didn't play the game we were supposed play, because we didn't have time. So with about 5 minutes left, I ended the class and said we would try again next time.

In terms of the JTE, I think his ego may have been somewhat bruised, but overall damage would be very minimal. First of all, I teach at 12 other schools, and second of all, even at this school, I work with at least 15 other teachers (JTEs I guess) -- it's only the one class where I had an issues.

Also, I was very careful NOT to mention the incident to anyone else... I figured this would allow the teacher to save face because whenever you bring up a behaviour issue with a homeroom teachers, they take it very personally and are ashamed on a deeply personal level... By not talking about it, his co-workers may not even hear about the incident and it leaves the door open to "fixing" things for my next visit.... I think in the end it will turn out OK...

[6810]

I teach at four elementary schools in two week cycles. Last academic year, I had a difficult group of 6th graders, not unlike Jim's. In my case, the teacher never lost it, in fact he didn't do much of anything.

That class simply never worked very well. Identical lessons with 6th graders at other schools all worked well.

In my opinion, it has less to do with you and more to do with long term homeroom teacher-student relations. I have seen horror fifth grade classes move into horror 6th grade teachers. In fact, the attitude of the students can in some cases be directly attributed to their earlier teachers.

At one school, I have the most amazing, energetic, curious and compassionate 6th grade class (no bullying, surliness or teasing) and this is because they have had the same teacher since 4th grade through to the present. She is an incredible skillful teacher (close to retirement too, so she's been in the game a while).

But I digress.

My point is that sometimes lessons don't work. If you've ever played in a professional music group, you know that sometimes your bandmates aren't feeling "it". Then there are times when the audience just plain sucks and there is very little to do except push through it.

If I have any advice from my two years at elementary schools it would be to build on whatver curriculum you have in order to make it highly flexible. Tailor lesson activities (games, worksheets) to each level but keep a few things up your sleeve for the odd flat moment.

It sounds like you don't speak Japanese in class? Do you speak/understand Japanese? Cos if so this is one way you can figure out what is going wrong and you can respond directly to the students.

Yes, apparently Japanese is taboo in the classroom, but when it comes down to witnessing a total class meltdown or a complete lesson failure, get in there and get dirty with your own meirei.

On the other hand, in a pure nightmare 4th grade class (severe bullying, incompetent teacher straight out of teaching college) I used only English and used a very loud voice (without screaming or yelling) and played the role of drill sargent. There was no fun (for the students ) but plenty for me as I gound the bullies into dust, making them sing songs solo, do squats and teach the class. All in english. Next time I taught them, they were fine. Next time after that - back to hideous. A day in the life of an Elementary ALT.

[JimDunlop2]

[Glenski]

[canuck]

[fluffyhamster]

Why the apparent obssession with 'Classroom English' (instructions, imperatives and the like), canuck? I thought what Jim was saying made a lot of sense if a class seems to be having problems generally...make the English that you speak just the really important stuff, the focus that indeed needs modelling in English.

But I appreciate that not all future teachers (AETs) will be able or willing to speak Japanese, and who knows, some of the kiddies themselves might be dreaming even as we "speak" of being English teachers themselves one day - must provide MAXIMUM INPUT!!!

Once the kids understand what needs to be done in an imminent pair/group/class activity and have a rough grasp of the target language, then things can become less teacher-centred, and nothing Jim has or hasn't said would lead me to accuse him of doing only...<<GASP>>..."teacher-centred" classes.

[JimDunlop2]

If anyone is curious as to what I do with my classes, go to the GenkiEnglish website... I use many of the materials, activities, games and songs from there. My BoE purchased the Superpack, so we have access to all the worksheets, flashcards, CDs, etc...

But you'll also notice that most of the material on the website is also available in Japanese. I have two options when presenting a lesson to a class. I can either: a) print out what I'm doing in Japanese, have the JTE read it, and give the kids instructions in Japanese what we will be doing, how and why... OR b) I can do it myself (in Japanese). It really amounts to the same thing.

If I want to save time, I have the JTE explain activities to the students... But nevertheless, this MUST be done in Japanese... There is just no way around it. The only alternative would be to demonstrate by action and example. But I would have to do this VERY slowly, and probably repeat it more than once. Not only would this kill a good portion of the class (remember, I only see each class once every two months or LESS) many kids would also get bored... They want to take part already, not listen to stuffy ol' instructions on HOW to play a game.

I definitely don't "chalk n' talk" though. My classes are not teacher-centered, other than what is required to have the students know what they should be doing. Remember, someone did a recent study on paying attention in class (in N. America) and it was found that among High School students (gr. 10-12), at ANY GIVEN TIME, on average, only 25% of the students were actually paying attention. So giving instructions and explanations in a foreign language prior to doing an activity only means that 75% of my students will be confused and won't know how to play the game right. Even when EVERYTHING is done in Japanese AND demonstrated to the students -- some of them STILL can't do it right and must be shown individually when the game is already taking place... But the less students I have to do this with, the better...

BTW, for what it's worth, people who question my use of Japanese in the classroom are also those who have never sat in on any of my classes. Those who have, have always been happy with what they saw -- native-speakers and Japanese people alike. After they see how I conduct my lesson, they quickly understand that my Japanese usage is not a hinderance to teaching English... And that also includes (among other people) my boss at the BoE who sat in on one of my lessons recently. He was quite happy and satisfied with my performance...

[canuck]

Well, obviously sitting in on one of your lessons is impossible. Why don't you go step by step of what you did for the lesson, with the same age students, that worked. Then, we can critique it fully. Go ahead. Your turn. We're listening.

[JimDunlop2]

canuck: I see no reason to do this. Besides, it would be pointless unless I went to all the trouble to specify exactly which parts I explained in Japanese and which parts in English... It would also be impossible to convey the energy, body language, facial expressions, speed and quality of my presentation.

What's left then, being devoid of all the above, is straight content. I've already mentioned that I use the GenkiEnglish material... So without re-copying what is already out there, I can give you a rough run-down of the sequence that I followed for my lesson and allow you to read up on the details as needed from Richard's website.

Once again, I stress that my original intention was never to critique my lesson (or lesson plan) but just to get a feeling for the way other English teachers react if (when?) their JTEs yell at the kids... If it were anything more than 1 oddball class that I was unsuccessful with, I might be asking for advice -- but I am requesting none.

Nevertheless, here is the sequence I followed for my Christmas lesson:

1.a. Greetings
1.b. TPR warmup http://www.genkienglish.net/Warmup.htm
2. What do you want for Christmas lesson (as printed, including song). http://www.genkienglish.net/whatdoyouwantforchristmas.htm My only omission was #1. the drawing game.
3. Goodbyes

[canuck]

Jim, your problems STARTS with the plan. If you only see your students once in a while, you have them drawing pictures and doing a silly warm-up? No wonder why you have behaviour problems.

You could have started the class going over the vocabulary. DRILL, DRILL, DRILL.

Then have your students, in pairs, talk about what they want for Christmas. Have them practice this 5 times. Have a few students present it.

Then have the kids walk around and ask 10 ten people, what do you want for Christmas. This way, it's all communicative and they are doing something in English.

Seems like you're aiming for the kids to "experience" English, instead of giving it the 'ol college try and try on teaching them something.

To walk out on a lesson half way through and expect the Japanese teacher to give them the riot act because they aren't behaving well to teach them a lesson is silly. Better planning with a more communicative approach, keeping the kids busy, in English, will serve you a lot better. All these instructions could be completed in English as well.