Job Discussion Forums

[james_lankford]

Hi, I hope I'm correct for placing this in the job related forum.

I read posts that say the students don't like English corner, that they act up in class, that they skip classes and don't take lessons seriously. Even students that you would expect more from, like medical students, only show up because they have to.

So what do students want? Private lessons/small group practice? Conversation practice? Outside interaction with native English speakers? A reason/hope/belief that English will bring concrete benefits?

I know each student/age group has its own needs. But what do you think think 16 - 22 year olds, high school/college students, want?

How about 25 - 30 year olds, aduts entering into/settling into the workforce?

If you had serious students that could design a class, what woud they want and why?

[Voldermort]

What do students want? Thats an excellent question. They want to sleep in the class, they want to talk with their classmates and of course they want to do their homework.

In my opinion, most chinese students view the 'oral english class' as a waste of time. The biggest problem is that with the other classes, they have an exam to work towards, oral english plays a very little part in this. The students know it and use it to their advantage.

Another problem is that they think of game playing and group work as a poor learning strategy. Sure they want to play games, but it has nothing to do with learning, they just want a break from the mundane. Most students have no clue about the western methods of learning and when FT's walk into their classroom they have no idea about what they should do. We have to teach them more than just English.

[Spiderman Too]

It's an easy question to answer, but it's not always easy to provide the answer.

The students want interesting, informative and helpful lessons.

During my previous career back home I attended countless workshops, seminars and lectures on matters directly related to my career. Matters that I was interested in. Matters to enhance my professional knowledge and therefore help me climb the corporate ladder.

But man it was a challenge to stay awake during many of the sessions.

The greatest challenge for all teachers / tutors / lecturers is to present the information in a way that interests the audience.

Have you seen the movie 'The Mirror Has Two Faces' with Barbra Streisand and Jeff Bridges, both university lecturers?

Jeff Bridges' character asks Barbra Streisand's character how is it that so many students attend her lectures, stay to the end, and then applaud at the finish, compared to his student audience those of which remain awake you can count on one hand.

Jeff Bridges lectures in a dull and lifeless manner whereas Barbra Streisand delivers her lectures in an animated and passionate fashion.

Of course, it is not always easy to formulate and deliver an interesting lesson.

Grammar lessons can easily bog down no matter how well the teacher has prepared.

And necessary repetition is boring for both student and teacher.

Teacher - student synergy sometimes just doesn't develop; I don't know why.

Motivation on the part of the student is a pre-requisite. But I think that it's part of the teacher's role to motivate as well as inform.

Indeed, I think of equal importance to knowledge is a passion to teach on the part of the teacher. A desire to win over the students despite their obstinacy / disinterest / reticence.

[Roger]

An FT must constantly remind himself (or herself) that they are here on sufferance - almost literally so!
Remember your own school days: did you want to go to school, to the flag-raising ceremony and sit beside school bullies? A most emphatic no!

School is an environment that regiments your life; the kids learn to "behave" and "to obey", hardly more. They are not interested in the subjects. Such interest grows eventually in spite of the kids - this you can call the "process of getting used to it".

Chinese students, upon being asked why they joined this English class, routinely answer a well-rehearsed little refrain: "I love English!" Really? You must be fooling yourself, little student!

You hated your teacher, those silly nationalistic ceremonies in the schoolyard, the discipline, the crowdedness in the classroom, the fact that your lives were being ordered and managed by those adults!

Add to this the appalling food those kids have to eat, the enforced absence from home and family for 12 hours a day or even being cloistered up in a boarding-school! There isn't much in the life of a student that's fun!

But pity won't help either side! Ask these kids, and they will say "I love..." - insert here "my country", "my teacher", "the school". It is their duty to answer this way!

Acts and facts speak louder than their solemn mumblings! See how they exploit the teachers' naivete? Have you noticed that they "love" English only so long as they haven't passed their exams? And it's much the same with the rest of their subjects! There is no enthusiasm for anything! This is a society that doesn't welcome choices; students are given a coveted rare chance to study at university - they cannot choose, and they cannot even choose the subjects they will cover at university: it's the other way around! Thus, future English teachers may have preferred to study chemistry or medicine - but a quirk decided they must become English teachers... imagine their enthusiasm! This is, after all, still a 5-year planning economy! In those economies that stick to such prognostications, human aspirations don't matter; they have to be subordinate to the national goals!

[james_lankford]

thanks for everyone's replies

the reason I asked this question is because I am NOT an english teacher. I am NOT even IN China.

I am a computer programmer in New York City. I'm pretty good at it, but I really hate it, sitting all day in a cubile, typing, staring at a computer screen, never talk to anyone.

I occasionally tutor/give conversation practice to korean and chinese students at Columbia. These are students enrolled in Columbia University's American Language Program.

I lie doing this. It is a 1000 times more interesting than computer programming. I have been thinking/debating for the longest whether I should go to China and do ESL.

I know. You all think I'm stupid.
How dare he think he can come over here and teach. He doesn't even have any training. Does he think just anybody can do it?

Well, no. That's why I keep thinking that it's unrealistic. It will be nothing like tutoring to a very small group here in the states. It will be incredibly difficut.

The students I work with here are all excellent in grammar. They know it inside and out. But if I give them the easiest thing in the world to read, they have NO comprehension and their conversation skills and vocabulary are horrible.

They say all they study in their home country is grammar, but they never get a chance to practice speaking.

So I'm kinda debating quitting all this programming, and trying to find a job teaching englsih in china. The posts on this board and this topic have been interesting and helpful.

Still tossing around the idea. Don't know what to do yet.

[Roger]

I don't think at all you are stupid, man! I can imagine your job is full of routines that put you out of socialising for the better part of a day!
I do doubt, though, whether being a dialogue partner wto some Chinese English learner is much different; most of these guys have impaired thinking, repeating what they have learnt through textbook study under a CHinese teacher. You will hear identical questions from a multitude of CHinese, sometimes even though they could save you some trouble by listening to what you are saying to someone else!

All jobs entail routine work; this can be both a boon and a bane. It is a boon since you can recycle what has been successful; it is a bane if you need stimulation! If you have a dozen classes spread over a week, you are bound to do the same routine every day for a whole week, then adopt the next lesson and go through it for another week; the first 2 or 3 days you are full of beans, but on the fourth and fifth days you get pretty exhausted!

THat's when you realise you are focused on language aspects that need addressing; some students improve their English, others won't - and therein lies the key to satisfaction: can you, or can't you, help individuals in each class?

Most studnets just go for the routine too - it's the path of the least resistance. They are not the ideal learners; you want those brilliant ones that succeed where the masses get left behind!

[Pericles77]

[dajiang]

[Pericles77]

[Freestyle T]

Chinese students don't know what they want. Ask them and they not only contradict each other, they contradict themselves.

T: What would you like?
S: More movies!
T: OK.

So you show them movies.

S: Teacher, this movie is boring. We want something about our daily lives.
T: OK.

So you show them a movie that they can relate to.

S: Teacher, this movie is boring. You show too many movies. We want to learn English.
T: OK, do you want a book lesson or free conversation?
S: We want free conversation.

So you give them some topics, some questions to ask, some useful phrases to throw in, and they sit there like stunned mullets.

S: Teacher, we want to use the textbook.
T: OK.

So you use the textbook.

S: Teacher, the book is boring. We want to play games.

So you play games.

S: Teacher, games waste our time. We want to study English. You should be more serious.

And the same goes for songs, poems, books and whatever else. Face it, 90% of your students are hostile to what you're teaching them, and there's no motivating that crowd.

Then there's their passive style of learning. Their Confucian expectations of the teacher as a moral example blah blah. The simple fact that they INPUT NOTHING INTO THE CLASS. Anything is going to be boring if you don't try and contribute.

Simply, you can use songs and games as long as they are CLEARLY related to the point of the lesson. If the students walk away with a couple of phrases in their heads at the end, then they are happy. They want to have learned something, and they want to have learned it with a minimum of effort.