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[redafiya]

Just a brief question to those reliable long termers and trusted to be in the know such as Veiled Sentiments, Scot 47, Qatarchic,Bindair, Bebsi and so on� etc...

Basically -- How easy is Arabic to learn? I have lived/travelled all over the world, and find some languages infuriatingly impenetrable, and really, really heavy going (Korean for example, and to a much lesser degree, but still a challenge, Japanese) whilst some are far easier, and one just seems to absorb them from street life (Thai language for example, where street/taxi/caf� usage soon gets the newcomer to low pre int level after six months, and it�s fairly easy from there).

I think that learning any language for Brits/USA citizens -- is made more weighty and dull due to the dated way they are often taught and the old fashioned methods and course books available for us learners.... Think about it -- wasn't this also true for foreigners wanting to learn English in the past?...how awful were English study books/methods 20 to 30 yrs ago? This state of affairs has only changed due to the great selection of EFL methods/books/videos we have now, and this I argue, is not because we Brits and Yanks are any more innovative/creative than our fellow Korean/Arabic/Japanes teachers, not at all, because it is rather because so many people want to learn English for work/life/study, that we have been PUSHED to innovate the easiest, fun, most attractive methods of imparting knowledge of English to foreigners, and for no other reason in my view...

Now, the same can't be said when most of us Brits/yanks want to learn Korean/Japanese/Arabic etc, and we get handed the most dull , boring text books you can imagine, which conjure up memories of language methodology last known to be popular in the 1940's.....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....now THAT is one of the problems in my view....

How does Arabic rate, and what is the quickest way to reach low intermediate level? Are there any reliable text to be used, or are we talking 1940�s methodology and books which immediately induce a coma like state?

Thanks for any tips.

Reda.

[veiledsentiments]

Did you see this thread? A search may even turn up more as this gets discussed regularly.

http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=12225

Ease of learning the language depends on where you are teaching. If you are in say... Egypt or the Levant countries, you should be able to pick up at least survival Arabic quite quickly. (which is why my Arabic sounds like the average Egyptian Taxi driver...) Most expats learn it to some extent because you have to...

In the Gulf, you have little chance to even use it as about the only Arabic speakers you encounter are your students and you have to speak English with them. So, you will find that less than 10% of the English speaking expats know more than a couple phrases.

I found it a very difficult language to study with a book... because the books were all so AWFUL!! According to the thread above, it seems that finally some better books are being developed.

VS

[QatarChic]

A book is called Mastering Arabic byJane Wightwick, Mahmoud Gaafar- it's modern, easy to use and up to date. This would be a good beginner book to use.

I think as with any language, the best way to learn is in the country itself. Most people tend to go to Egypt, Syria or Jordan to learn Arabic. But even then, you have the problem of learning two different languages (well almost) written Arabic and spoken Arabic are very different. The standard, written form is understand by those throughtout the Mid East, but even then most people will use their own regional dialect when speaking.

They say that Arabic is the most difficult language to learn, and apparently its due to its complex grammatical structure, however it really depends on to what depth you want to learn the lingo.

Anyways- be sure to have a look at that book, some people also say that the TALK NOW Series, is good- but that's limited to just vocabulary.

Hope this helps.........Good luck whatever you do!

[scot47]

Time-consuming but worth it. I am not a fan of the new methodologies in language teaching.

Old-fashioned Grammar cannot be avoided. How else are you going to come to terms with irregular verbs in Arabic ? Could you learn Latin with the new methodologies ?

Incidentally learning tyhe script is not the chore that some people think. It gives a real sense of accomplishment when you can decipher street signs etc.

[abufletcher]

Every language seems to have a tradition associated with it in terms of how it is taught. French always seems to be total immersion. Russian is always old-fashion grammar translation. With learning Arabic the basic problem is the issue of diglossia and the strong bias towards the written word that ultimately has religious overtones.

There are still serious Arabic scholars that insist that true Arabic has no dialects and that the language is completely unrelated to anything that was spoken prior to revelation of the Koran. Even my Omani students would say things like "I don't speak Arabic, I only speak laHjah." And while this word "lahjah" can be translated as "dialect" it is frequently used in a perjorative sense like "*beep* speech."

Another reality is that spoken dialects of "Arabic" can be as different from each other as Spanish is to Italian or even French. Generally you can divide the major dialects into 3-4 types: Gulf Arabic, Levant Arabic, and North African -- though the Arabic of Egypt and the Arabic of Morocco maybe virtually unintelligible. The only thing that ties (educated) speakers of Arabic together is a common taught standard form (called Modern Standard Arabic = MSA). So the problem is that you really have to learn TWO languages and not just one.

I'd start by finding a good book on the dialect of your preference. I started out with the DLI's book on Hijazi dialect because I was going to be working in the Asir region of Saudi Arabia. Later I switched to books on the Gulf dialects.

As others have stated your opportunities to speak Arabic in the Gulf will be severely limited. In many urban areas only about 2 in 10 people will actually be Arabic speakers. You'd have more chance to practice Hindi or Urdu. I spent a lot of time in the mountains and wadis of Oman so I got to talk to more people in my minimal Arabic. But I think I probably spoke more Arabic in one month of travels in Yemen that I did in an entire year in Oman.

Personally, I find most books of MSA unfathomably dry and boring. And I don't agree at all that Arabic is best learn through "traditional methods." I did a grammar-translation style Arabic class at university and I can tell you I learned nothing of value -- except how to dissect ridiculous "model" sentences such as "Who killed Fadel's dead horse?" and "What color was the blind janitor's jacket?"

BTW, I know what you mean about some languages sticking more easily to travelers. I was amazed at how accessible Bahasa seemed to be even for casual travelers.[/i]

[redafiya]

//I did a grammar-translation style Arabic class at university and I can tell you I learned nothing of value -- except how to dissect ridiculous "model" sentences such as "Who killed Fadel's dead horse?" and "What color was the blind janitor's jacket?"//

Brilliant Abu ! This had me laughing out loud!

Didn't we have to learn similar incredible sentence forms when we studied Latin?

I remember we had to translate into Latin sentences like "The wooden horse , which was the toy of the Emperor's nephew -- had been willfully crushed underfoot by the idle servant woman, who had proved herself heedless in her fulfillment of the duties expected of mortals by the Gods. She has been upbraided by Francescus for her flagrant flaunting of the hierarchies demanded of us by the senate's rules, and by the Stoic teachings of Seneca."

or --

"The cooking pot, belonging to Marcella's uncle, had been overturned in a gesture of wilful rage by her chagrined husband, Maximus, who, in righteous reaction -- his hands lifted in supplication to the Gods -- has left the villa and set out on the road, newly built by our avuncular emperor, to Londinium."

Anyone remember this stuff? No wonder we didn't enjoy Latin class and threw chewed up paper at the back of the Latin teacher. Is it any wonder? If we tried to teach English like this, we'd be pelted with fruit or worse.

[ootii]