Job Discussion Forums

[GabeKessel]

If any Soviet person would ever watch Hollywood-made movies about the Cold War, he would be amazed at the following:

a) They had either Polish or Yugoslavian actors and the films were shot in Yugoslavia and other such places. They spoke Russian in them with English subtitles. Their Russian was so badly accented, most Russian speakers could not understand what they were saying for the most part. The Yugoslavian actors were dark compexioned with their peculiar Turkish admixture- Russians look nothing like that. Doctor Zhivago with Omar Sharif playing a Russian was another funny thing. No Russian would have an Arab face like that.

A whole generation or two of Americans was brought up on these movies made by people who had never even been to that country and who spoke no local language. Therefore a Hollywood USSR was created. Consequently, the misconceptions that the directors of these movies had were transfered over to the entire US public. Here they are for the most part ( I have written the corrections underneath them so that when you go and visit your girl, you will impress her by not uttering any of those)

1) USSR=Russia. Soviet Union=Russia. All people in USSR are Russians.

This has been the biggest misconception. Even the most educated Americans made that mistake. You needed to be a PhDed Sovietologist in the Pentagon to know the difference.

Russia was just one of the 15 countries/republics that composed or were members USSR. Russians were in command but they were less than 50% of the USSR population. Outside of Russia there were these other republics( which were basically countries-the set up was very similar to the UK which consists of 4 countries- England, N. Ireland.Scotland and Wales, and Yugoslavia which consisted of five- Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Macedonia and Bosnia.)

Besides Russia there were these:

Ukraine
Belarus
Moldova
Uzbekistan
Kazakhstan
Turkmenistan
Kirghizstan
Tajikistan
Lithuania
Latvia
Estonia
Georgia
Azerbaijan
Armenia

The above were *not* parts of Russia. They were constituent republics of the Union * along* with Russia. They were non-independent countries, in fact, outside of the Russian Federative Republic. That is how they could declare independence and become normal countries. Chechnya, though was part of the Russian republic and that is why it has a hard time declaring independence and breaking away.

People from Armenia and Ukraine may have spent their entire lives without ever seeing a Russian. In Western Ukraine, a Russian may wonder into the wrong place and get himself killed just for being a Russian.

In the movie 2001 the Space Odessy" I heard the expression- "Russian citizens" but there was no Russian citizenship in the USSR- it was Soviet citizenship.

2) Russian names end in "sky- or "ski".

This is really weird and is another misconceptrion of the most severe kind. Yes, there was a Dostoyevsky and Chaikovsky but mostly it was noblemen that had names ending in "ski". Most Russian names end in "in" or "ov-ev". Yeltsin, Gorbachev, Putin, Romanov- where do you see the "ski"?

3) Russians use a "Russian" alphabet.
Well, yes, you can call it that way but it the correct name is Cyrillic Alphabet- it is not from Russia but is from Byzantium- I think somewhere in Macedonia- it was artificially created by some Byzantine monks to communicate with the Slavs. Bulgarian, Serbian, Macedonian and another 20 some languages use the Cyrillic. Yes, you can call it a Russian alphabet but it is just like calling the Roman alphabet-English Alphabet. Cyrillic alphabet is not from Russia.

4)All Russians are/were Communists/members of the Communist Party.

Actually, most were not. Only about 3% of the country were members of the CPSU- Communist Party of the Soviet Union.

5) There are European Russians and there are Asian Russians.

If you are Asian, you are not a Russian. You are just a citizen of the country but you are not ethnically Russian. Various Eskimo groups in Siberia are simply non-Russians. It is not like the USA where you can hyphenate people, There, either you are a European-looking man with a Russian name and you speak Russian, or you are not Russian. There is no Asian Russian, just like there is no feline dog. Or a pink panther. If it is pink, it is not a panther.

6) There are White Russians and there are *Black Russians/Asian Russians, etc*. ( Yup, I have heard that one in the USA). Again, it is another projection- because that is how things are in the USA, well, then things must be that way in other countries, too.

The term "White Russian" refers to the Civil War of 1918-1920 where there were the Reds- the Communists and the "Whites"- the monarchists. Probably had to do with the colors of the pawns in the game of checkers. When the defeated Whites arrived in SF, Americans asked them- "What Russian are you, are you a Commie? "No, we are Whites". The Americans probably interpreted it as 'White American" meaning non-Black.

Another misguided translation is that of BelaRus which means "White Rus" -it is a country East of Poland. Rus means a Scandinavian tribe/settlement thereof- the word for Swedes is Ruotsi in Finninsh- hence- Rus. Again, it has to do with a place where these Scandinavians settled and the place became known as Rus. The white thing- Bela- has to do either with the color of the soil or too much snow. Again the American projection would be to immediately transfer this to a skin color. Well, if these are White Russians , the rest must be Blacks or Dark/Hispanic. This is how the American mind works, I guess.

In Ukraine there are two camps- the Orange- for Yuschenko and the Blue, for Yanukovich- it means that there are Orange Ukrainians and Blue Ukrainians. But obvioulsy, it does not mean that these are names of races.

7) Russians hate (ed) Americans.

Actually, the traditional Russian hatred was always against Germany and Germans. Not against Americans. The USSR government always taught that American people were good but oppressed by a bad government. Germans on the other hand have always been enemies and both the people and the government were bad.

From my understanding, people in the US were taught to hate " the Russians" and never was there a distinction between the government and the people. All Russians were bad- such was the propaganda during the Cold War. Again, the projection- they must be the same , too.

So, Americans are mostly well-treated in Russia- this is why most Americans are surprised when they visit there. People treat them very well. Why? We hated their guts and they did not hate our guts?

A German or anyone with German blood, though, will not be liked by most anyone. The hatred runs deep. If you are an American of German descent, it may be wise not to advertise it too wide.

If given a chance, most Russians would leave their country in droves and come to the US.

That is baloney. Most people love their country the same way Americans love America. Do you see Americans lining up in front of the Luxembourg, Swiss, Bruneian and Kuwaiti consulates? There is more money there.

Governments and educational departments of every country teach their citizens patriotism and love for the Motherland. To a Russian, leaving one's country and going to live overeseas is equivalent to High Treason. Plus, why would he go to a country whose language he cannot speak?

9) Russia is cold all year around.

Russia has very hot summers and quite well pronounced springs and autumns. It has four seasons just like most other places in Europe.

10) All Russians speak English but roll their "rs" and use the word " comrade" to each other.

Most people in Russia do not speak English and most do not use the word "comrade". The word they used during the Communist times was "tovarishch" and that means kind of like best friend or "pal" or "buddy". The word for comrade is "soratnik"-and that is used only by military people. "Comrade" is another Hollywood invention.

11) Russians are all blonds/ or Russian are all dark-haired.

I think in the thaws during the Cold War, Russians were portrayed as fair heaired, blond people. When things would get bad, for some reason, in the US movies they would look dark, kind of like Greeks or Turks.

In reality, most Russians look kind of like the Irish- with light brown/dirty blond hair. The faces are a bit more round and the noses are of the "pug" variety. Eyes are mostly grey or blue. If people in Russia are really dark, they are usually not Russians ethnically- mostly Armenians or Jews.

12) Russia is an Asiatic/Asian country.

Truman called Russians "a bunch of Asiatics". I have heard this one more tha once and even read it in the American books on travel to Russia. I do not know what Asiatic means, but if most Russians travel in Asia- i.e, HK, Japan, Korea, Philippines, people usually ask them " What state in the US are you from?" and talk to them in English. Kids start screaming " Americano! Americano!.

Probably the people who wrote the books confused the onion tops of Orthodox churches with Taj Mahal. And they looked at the map and saw Siberia with the word "Russia" written all over it, and concluded that it was in Asia. The CIA World book now lists Russia in Asia. Check out if when you bring your blond blue eyed wife with you to the US, maybe you can enroll her in the local Asian American as.sociation and get some help- grants, affirmative action, etc. Bring the CIA world book with you to prove your point. Would be a nice joke and an unprecedented legal case before the US supreme court- Maria Ivanova vs. John Wong and Asian American as.sociation- refusal to admit an "Asian" into the American Asian as.sociation.

Actually, Russia is a European country that happens to own Siberia which is in Asia. Most people live in the European part and most people in Siberai are also of European stock. Most average Russians look Slavic just like people in Serbia or Croatia.

Conclusion:

Most US books on Russia or USSR, and such novels, and movies were written by people who had never been to the country and do not speak Russian or any other local languages. Think about how good would be a book or a movie about America by someone who does not speak English and who has never been to the US.

[chechevitsa]

no doubt no such stereotypes or misconceptions exist outside of the US, either regarding russia and the USSR or regarding the US and other associated countries such as Canada.

moreover, I am sure that your assertion that virtually nobody in the US has seen through the stereotypes is entirely true, and that any exceptions are mere flukes.

[canucktechie]

[coledavis]

Great contribution, Gabekessel. A few comments:
a) USSR=Russia, Europe/Asia etc. Yes, this confused the west. At the
same time, it was a confusion that the Russians, or at least
the state, shared. They have never agreed between
ideas of Russia as almost anti-European (pan-Slavists such as
Doestoevski were very much against amalgamation with western
European culture), as a primarily European power (St Petersburg
was built as a 'window on the west' and remains a European city
in outlook), or as a multiracial empire. These conflicts, including
the state-inspired movement called Russification, could be said to
have led to the ultimate downfall of the Romanovs.
b) No such thing as a Russian citizen? Well, although this certainly
was different from being a citizen of the USSR, you could also be a
citizen of Russia (or Kazakhstan etc). Although, Russia had less
rights as an independent state than the others, because of its
inherent confusion as centre of Soviet power. (This is a bit akin
to demands for English localised govt. in the light of the Scottish
Assembly.)
c) Russian alphabet. These days, Russians refer to their alphabet
as Russian and not Cyrillic (I found to my surprise). Having said
that, there is some logic to this. Other versions do differ somewhat.
Although this could also be the resurgence of Russian identity as
a nation.
d) Russians don't hate Americans. Having said that, I think they
respect the British rather more. Not sure if this is cultural or
reflects different relationships in WW2 and after.
e) Wanting to leave the country. A lot of people do, but not as
many as you might think (for the reasons Gabekessel gives). The
'high treason' argument only tends to be espoused by ultra nationalists
like Zhurinovsky). I've only heard similar sentiments expressed by
one Russian. Most seem supportive of those who wish to emigrate,
although most are content to stay in Russia (if not happy with
living conditions in the country).
f) Russians do roll their R's! (although not as splendidly as Scots).

[Kent F. Kruhoeffer]

Привет Друзья !


Speaking of here's a cool link

to a large database of Russian films:



http://www.geocities.com/rusatg/index.html

[steven_gerrard]

Mind you, doesn't the Russian's perception that England is the UK (Much the same as Russia was the same as the Soviet Union from most British people's point of view) and we all eat porridge for breakfast and drink tea at 5pm etc etc etc get on your nerves as well?

As for Russians looking like the Irish- er, if you mean the fellas all look like they have been drinking all day since the age of 12 then yeah, but I reckon that's where the similarity ends.

[GabeKessel]

[GabeKessel]

[GabeKessel]

USSR=Russia, Europe/Asia etc. Yes, this confused the west. At the
same time, it was a confusion that the Russians, or at least
the state, shared. They have never agreed between
ideas of Russia as almost anti-European (pan-Slavists such as
Doestoevski were very much against amalgamation with western
European culture),


However, it did not mean that he would favor being united with India, China or Japan. He would be very happy to be united with the Greeks, Serbians, Bulgarians, and other such Orthodox European people. So, while he was against being united with *Western* Europe, the Orthodox Europe was never on his pet-peeve list.

[chechevitsa]

[GabeKessel]

[coledavis]

It won't change. Even a Russian I know who lives in England and has shed a lot of her old prejudices still refers to, for example, a jew as being a jew by nationality. Not ill-will in this case, just ingrained mental habit.

[GabeKessel]

It is not a prejudice- it is the official policy of her gov't. The government issues people documents that say that. At least , until recently they had.

In most European countries at least from Germany on east, everything is the same as in Russia as far as Jews being a separate nationality. Britain is an exception because of many liberal governments in the past, and also, because in 1914 laws were passed to accomodate lots of immigrants coming from other parts of Europe. Everybody born in Britain was now automatically "British". I suspect a lot of it was copied from America because of the close ties between these two countries. So, a person could be now a Jew and also an Englishman. Also, during deportations of Gypsies from different European countries, Britain was the only one that did not kick out the Gypsies who were 'born' there. Somehow, this 'birth thing' entitles a person to live like a Brit and makes Britain his country as that person's birth right.

Same with most British colonies. However, other countries are not like that. Russia had the word "Yevrei" written in ID booklets for Jews there, and had the word "Tzigan- Gypsy" written in such people's IDs. And German people ( who had been in Russia for centuries) had their nationality written in their ID documentation. So, whenever one went to apply for a job, discrimination would start. If the "foreign" facial features were physically visible, people could be beaten or even shot.

However, not all is dandy in Britain, either. London may be very cosmopolitan, but I have had friends who grew up in other parts of the country amidst the shouts of "Paki go home" and other such things. These people were born in Britain. A guy I knew in Saudi had been arrested in Britain for verbal assault. He called a dark complexioned cop who gave him a parking ticket "a bloody w-g" . So, while Britain has had a change in documentation, what people say about "Germans" and "Greeks" in the Buckingham Palace and other "bloody foreigners" while drinking in pubs, notably outside of London, is still very much alive. Something to do with the UK being 'not quite' the "land of immigrants".

Russia is changing, albeit slowly. They have almost stopped using the word "Russkiy"( ethnic Russian, as a race) on TV and, instead, use the word "Rossiyanin". In English these two words mean "Russian", but Russia almost never used the word "Rossiyanin" before. And it means , basically, a citizen of Russia, born there or not. Any race, any background. The word "Russkiy" may disappear after a hundred years or so if the PC efforts by various "Ne-Russkiy" people in society keep up.

It used to be , actually, in the times of various Alexanders, that anyone, I mean, anyone, who were baptised in the Russian Orthodox church became a Russian. A Russkiy. Somehow things changed with the influx of too many " inozemtzy".

[chechevitsa]

[GabeKessel]