Job Discussion Forums

[myesl]

Greetings and salutations, esteemed patrons at The Cafe Dave. I moved this from off topic since it is in fact job related and that other place attracts the wrong types

I want to know what you think of any of the following cities if you have lived there.
Beijing
Shanghai
Nanjing
Guangzhou
Suzhou
Tianjin
Shenzhen

I have lived in China for about a year, two and a half in Taiwan, and one each in Korea and Japan. I speak and read Chinese (as in non-fiction books, not the comics) and am looking to get out of the teaching field. This is one of the two main reasons I want to be in a MAJOR city. The other is that I have twice lived in backwaters here and will do so no more.

I was really impressed with Beijing this summer. People were so much more civilized than elsewhere in China. Is Shanghai like that? Anywhere else? I'm sick of having people blow snot on the sidewalk next to me (and almost getting covered) or having their kids urinate and defecate anywhere.

Many thanks for all legitimate input. If you like teaching and/or living in the "real" China (as opposed to all those fake Chinese people in the aforementioned cities), please don't tell me about it

[lumberjackej]

Why not just go back to Taiwan? I've heard people are much more 'civilised' there, at least when it comes to manners and ettiqu as you defined it.

I doubt this helps you but I'm just curious why you don't return to a more developed, Chinese-speaking country/renegade province with a presumably higher salary.

Are you having a hard time in finding a job in the cities?

EJ

[millie]

I think the comparisons between SH and BJ are obvious though I have not lived in the former, friends have and quite liked it - despite the climate. Some say that SH people are not so friendly but that was not my experience. Aloof or a little proud perhaps�

To me, Nanjing is like a large provincial town with some fading history and does not really compare to SH or BJ. Outside of the half a dozen gardens and a couple of tourist streets, Suzhou is a bit of a dump and not much better than Tianjin which I have only visited for a couple of days. Dynamic is not a word I would apply to any of these 3 cities.


Ditto EJ�s comments.

[Roger]

It isn't clear what the OP is after but he made it clear he wants replies from residents in those places rather than insights from visitors. I have been to all cities mentioned except Tianjin but I will confine my observations to GUANGZHOU and SHENZHEN since these are towns where lived, or still live.

GUANGZHOU has a vibrant economy and outperforms most places on your list except Beijing and Shanghai, yet it isn't as internationalised as either. STARBUCKS for example took several more years to come here, and they still only run 4 or 5 outlets.
The natives can be more hostile to outsiders than they generally seem to be in the rest of China (as listed by the OP).
Cantonese, i.e. natives of Guangdong province, generally are less sophisticated than northerners are - witness Hongkongers of Cantonese descent! Rowdy, noisy, ellbowy is how I would prefer to characterise the majority of them. Country yokels.
But there are shiny sides to their image too. The central authorities have never had an easy time with Guangdong; local cultures of some charm thrive - witness Chaozhou tea culture, Cantonese opera, the Hakka tribal ways ('keja' in Mandarin).
Most visitors I have received at my home were nonplussed by what they saw and experienced in Guangzhou; most opined rather uniformly that this city lacks graces, breathable air and colours.
While I think I can agree with their findings I know more places that offer me an escape from the more dreary aspects of a monstrous concrete jungle, and I have friends - though, interestingly, very fewe are native locals.

SHENZHEN:
I lived there for over 3 years and never really liked the place. It's a megapolis grown too quickly, and you can see that. High-rises of only 20 years of age look grotty, and the newer outlying districts such as Nanshan are modern, technology-driven and seemingly future-orientated - but soulless and inhospitable.
There are very few native Shenzheners because at its inception the SEZ was a cluster of villages numbering a total of only 30'000 inhabitants.
Today, and a few years after I left, the city has become a trifle more attractive (the underground railway, various infrastructure projects realised), but overall, it's a cultural desert.
It's geared neither to locals nor to foreigners but mainly to Chinese migrants from the hinterland stretching all the way to Manchuria. Some companies hire Chinese from the same home province as the company's head so it's kind of clannishness you will find.
Foreigners concentrate heavily in Shekou - but that's not because there are many FTs; the majority of those foreign nationals there are oil rig workers that are daily helicoptered or shipped to an off-shore oil well. On-shore they live rather ostentatiously - just go and see those villas on the China Beach or visit a bar behind the Nanhai Hotel.
The few pleasant surprises Shenzhen has relate to nature - wherever that has been left relatively intact: Wutongshan is a beautiful and relatively high mountain topping out at 940 meters or so, accessible on a winding foot path through a dense forest from Xianhu Park, which too is a magically-beautiful park to the east of Luohu district.
There is another interesting area called 'Shatoujiao' - a small town reachable from Shenzhen proper on a road that goes through a tunnel. The town itself has nothing to offer foreigners but a bit of historic anomaly for those who, because they are Chinese nationals, manage to obtain a visitor's pass.
There is a little gate leading into a secluded part of town; the gate is guarded and secured. No foreigner gets through...unless they have a special invitation and clearance from the PSB.
And what's so special past that gate?
It's the "international' section of Shatoujiao that fronts both the Mainland and Hong Kong. There is one street called Chung-Ying Rd (Cantonese spelling!) that divides the neighbourhood; here it was that mainlanders until maybe a decade ago could LEGALLY stock up on imported luxury goods imported through Hong Kong and marketed on the HK side of the street.
The HK side of Shatoujiao - written Shatoukok - is also closed off (inside the restricted border area) even though a bus connects it to nearby Sheung Shui; the bus must pass a checkpoint and if you don't have permission to enter Shatoukok from the HK side you will be whisked off.

[organix]

shenzhen is great. many people say many bad things about it. but in truth, if you look around, there are many wonderful opportunities and things to enjoy in this city.

hong kong is near. (add infinite more benefits to this list)
the hiking is good.
there is a beach.
the nightlife is great.
larege expat community.
food from all over china, and the world.
good wages.
nice parks and recreational opportunities.
lots of great people to meet and clubs to join.
smart students with decent english skills.
energetic, lively, pulsating city.
its china in action!

of course there are bad sides to this city, such as...

lots of pollution.
everyone is in a hurry.
lots of corruption.
worst crime rate in china.
money oriented culture.

but in my mind, the positives outweigh the negatives. good luck in your choice.

[2 over lee]

What is your plan for getting out of teaching?

[myesl]

Special thanks to Roger and Organix for actually answering the post questions as asked.


As for those who didn't,

EJ: I hate kids
Taiwan is nearly all kids teaching except some hard to find or low paid jobs teaching adults. One needs a master's degree (by law) in order to teach at a uni.

2o'Lee: Any suggestions? (I'm assuming you did read my original post)