Job Discussion Forums

[Cobra]

The above post was a paid advertisement for the Buckland Group made in violation of the Geneva Convention prohibiting torture and threats against prisoners of war.

[Ricepaddy]

Thanks, Cobra. So I'm a POW posting under duress? Let me guess...are you sat on a deserted uni campus with SFA to do all day, might I ask?

What I related in my previous post is my experience of working for Buckland. Both Jacob and I have viewpoints on this, and our views are determined by our experiences. Differing views, indeed, but validated by experience. It is up to the reader to decide which is most valid: it is certainly conceivable that we both have a point. Working for Buckland is like much else in China, you roll the dice and take your chances. It came up sixes for me (and others): do you have a problem with that?

If you have any first-hand experiences of working for Buckland to relate, I heartily encourage you to share them with us. You will find a most receptive audience, this correspondent included. If you do not, I can only conclude that you have found yet another bandwagon to scramble upon, and I beseech you to STFU. Common sense dictates that you should only comment on what you know...

[Jacob]

This thread is a veru bemusing. Owen, I don't know why you think I'm involved with foreignteachers.com but I am not. In fact I could care less about agents such as yourself. You see, I discovered that an English teacher in China can make over 20,000 RMB/month. However, the plethora of candid ,and, dubious retorts invoked by my posting is a conspicuous indication of culpability. Why do you need to defend yourself if you are so credible?

I think anyone working with Buckland is being duped in one way or another. It wasn't just me has come to this conclusion because I want more pay. It was the way Buckland constantly argued with the school I taught at over who should pay me and created a number of embarassing moments for myself and the school administration. I knew the people at the school well. I am a fair judge of people and I think Buckland lies whenever he can and always says, "it's no problem". It's a mess. I can't say that I wasn't given what was owed for my work but constantly having to bicker over it was, as far as I'm concerned, very unprofessional and distracting. I was, in fact, told that I would work in Guilin. I found out after arriving that there were no positions in Guilin. What happened to the "number of positions in Guilin"? Where did they go when I arrived. They went to the highest bidder and I went with the representative from another school that I trusted the most. I had a great time and aside from the constant battle over what was in the contract I enjoyed the experience. So, there is a reason why I am not involved with Buckland any longer. And, think everyone should know about it. This page is a democracy and I should be able to voice my reservations about agents like Buckland. Owen, why don't you stop defending yourself and listen to the voice.

[owen buckland]

[Cobra]

Owen - This page is definately NOT a democracy.

(Edited by Hamish 8-9-03. Do not call people names.) Ricepaddy says it is only for Jacob, you, himself and those with personal experience with Buckland.

The moderators must agree that this is your exclusive page because two of my posts have been deleted and there was nothing in them that violated any of the rules. (What was deleted was a refrence to too much sun and too much knee deep mud in a rice paddy. It was a take off on one poster's name.)

So Owen, you are wrong again.

[Changjiang]

Could Jacob please start a thread on how we can all make over RMB$20,000 a month?

[Cobra]

Owen it is clear that Jacob has a personal grudge to avenge and I would be surprised if Ricepaddy will not be asking for a raise soon, if he already hasn't.

Fortunately the people reading this thread will not be swayed that much by what is posted here. Particlulary when the claims become so outlandish as to lose any credability.

It seems to me that you can put this issue to bed, once and for all, by answerring one question:

You claim to have a large number of teachers under your auspices at this time. Do you or will you provide their email addresses so that a prospective applicant can contact them and get the true story first hand?

If your answer is yes then Ricepaddy would be perceived as the more accurate poster.

If your answer is no and Jacob can back up his outlandish claim of making 20,000 per month in China, then you lose Owen.

[Ricepaddy]

Cobra, if you have something to contribute to this thread, then spit it out. But if all you have to offer is the same condescension as your post on August 3rd, then I ask you to stay away from that keyboard. I don't care how bored you are.

BTW, I had two posts deleted, too. A comment on not enough sun, and a query as to why you changed your signature (an oblique challenge to your "common sense" one, which has disappeared, for some reason). On reflection, it was probably just as well that they were deleted. There is no reason for this to descend to a mud-slinging contest.

And as it happens, your last post is bogus. If an employer/agent EVER gave out my email address without my permission I would make it my business to throttle them with their own colon. No reputable agent or employer would ever dream of doing such a thing. If anyone wants to PM me, that's a different story..they know where to find me...

[Jacob]

It's not difficult to make a high salary teaching. Simply go to Beijing, Shanghai or any other large city and find a privately owned English school like Wall Street or Modern English. Or, you can teach your 15 hours at a university and tutor for 100-200 RMB/hr. With a teaching certificate it's really easy to get a well paying job teaching English. Of course, you must really work at your teaching and not provide an hour of entertainment rather than teach. Owen keeps teachers pictures up on his website even after they have quit working for Buckland. I doubt you can email a real teacher but if you do it's probably one that helps Owen out on the business side and he/she will surely paint you a nice picture of the easy life of teaching in Guilin. Not the crap town you get shipped to.

I have no reason for posting this except that I want to let people know what's going on. You folks can find out the hard way or weigh the responses. The prosecution rests.

[Cobra]

Ricepaddy schools regularly ask their former and present teachers for permission to give out their email addresses to prospective applicants. It is very common and many old hands regularly advise the newbies to ask for such. Check out certain recruiting web sites and you will see certain schools offer the emails of former or current teachers in the ad.

Jacob I am very familiar with Wall Street and Shanghai. I know many who have earned as much as 16,000 but it takes 30 hours. That last 4,000 is really hard unless you have no real life.

I think Owen must have some success or he would be flat on his bankrupt arse about now. Every employer has disgruntled employews at one time or another.

Ricepaddy I am very happy that I do not work with you.

Jacob it seems that your main complaint with Owen is how he does business. That is not your business. Teach and let the Chinese do business Chinese to Chinese in China in a business like manner with Chinese characteristics. I have seen far too many teachers involve themsleves in the business end of things where they do not belong.

Good luck Owen. Neither of these posters will prove an asset to you before it is all over.

[Cobra]

I want to make it very clear that I have never worked for Owen, never even met the man or talked with him directly.

But I come down on his side except that I do not consider that anything in this thread advances his business or harms it.

[Gray000]

To be fair, ricepaddy, the fact that you have only posted a few messages with that username leads me to wonder if there isn't something going on too. I feel I have to discount what you're saying because of that.

[Roger]

No one has proved Owen a liar or a cheat, and I must say we should all welcome him to this discussion forum because we need to know what the opposite side thinks. Think of those other crooks that go on recruiting and never answer any query on any forum! For fairness' sake, I say, listen to Owen - he has every right to say what he thinks.
We all, I hope, can read between the lines. Owen's outift is an agency, and we are split on the issue of whether we should join an agency or head direct for an employer. Surely agents are legitimate? I personally don't fancy using an agency because I don't need to. But who knows? If I wanted a job in Yangshuo, I could hardly bypass Owen.
And choosing Yangshuo over Peking or Shanghai is also choosing a lower-paid job over a high-income post. BUt we all know what we want in life - a hectic 8 to 5 job with money to burn at the end of the month, money we burn in the Sanlitun area, dreaming of the more laid-back places in Guangxi or Yunnan that we cannot afford to visit (or cannot visit because of time constraints), or a job in one ofthese places where you enjoy an idyllic scenery, friendlier folks and better dedicated students, at, however, a considerably lower pay?
i often envy those who work for Owen...in Yangshuo, that is, not if they are sent off to Hunan!

[owen buckland]

Hi Roger , in this forum, I think you are the God-father, most people enjoy reading your post, why? You are or you are trying to be objective! to be fair!!to be more informative!! As every one knows, people spend time here just want to share experience (bad or good), so any information or tips are welcomed, sometimes may be very helpful for the newbies. But people like Jacob, is another kind, I have metioned a few times here that Buckland welcome any complains,(not always by one and the only one--- Jacob)and this even help us to be a better serive outfit. but he seems use the same topic, the same story(even that is not totally true) to attack the same person for so many times, so every one knows what kind of person he is.
Why even Jacob tried so hard to damage Buckland's reputation but still so many western teachers like to work for Buckland?I think many people are courious-----if the moderator allows me, I can give 10 reasons. but I think it's better not to do it here. Any one who really interested, just PM me.

[owen buckland]

Jacob:
On my website www.bucklandgroup.org I have a long list of all the Buckland's membership schools(and it's locations),people are so easy to see that in Guilin there are only 2 positions available every year, do you think people are all so stupid like you not asking where they will be placed before they come to guilin?
Of course I keep teachers pictures up on my website even after they have quit working for Buckland(most of people finished their contract, sure they quit working). that is the history, that approves us not cheated them, so they let us to show their photos(with their feed back), they feel proud of being a teacher in Buckland.and we feel proud of having them.(you can never found your photo there, right? )