Job Discussion Forums

[Jizzo T. Clown]

I can't speak for the entire EF chain. All I can say is that the school in Sjz was professionally-run and we never got the impression that we were getting screwed. Sure, there were things we (at least, I) didn't like, for example, having to pass out flyers once every so often, or being required to attend the Christmas party, or having to teach three hours a week at a middle school for free, but since it was a small school, those of us who were working there bonded like a family.

We did have to work really hard, but the staff were very kind (even though they did things to get on the teachers' nerves, like giving you three new students five minutes before class started) and we learned a great deal from each other.

I haven't worked at that many other schools (only three, and two of those jobs were in the US, and one in Japan), so I can't give a balanced opinion.

Overall, I'd surmise that if you're mature and don't mind working hard, there are few places that are hellish to work for. This is of course assuming that the school doesn't try to rip you off or not pay you.

[vikdk]

thanks jizzo sounds like a regular type of Chinese school - can you tell us if being part of a chain effected the way the school was run - meeting EF standards, EF method that kinda stuff

[clark.w.griswald]

Considering the fact that there are many chain schools out there, and that in most respects they are quite similar, I find this pre-occupation with the EF chain quite....well, boring really.

EF bashing has been done to death in my opinion. Yes, there are some things about certain schools in that chain that make those particular schools ones to be avoided. There are also things about that whole chain that may make employment in that chain un-attractive to some people. I think that the above is just common sense really.

What is clear is that EF is no worse than any other school here, despite the efforts of some to paint it in the worst view possible.

In recent posts we have two teachers from EF who have stood up and said basically that they are happy with EF and that pretty much the other foreign teachers in their schools are also happy. They have not stated that EF is perfect, but then which school is? I don't know of one.

I would be interested in seeing if those who suggest that EF should be avoided could offer alternative suggestions? So yes, we have heard the many opinions as to what this specific school does wrong, so lets here some information about specific schools that these people believe do everything right?

[Roger]

[vikdk]

who's been attacking EF in this thread? I can see there are some questions - but isn't that part of a forum- to ask questions - to find out, first hand, what is really going on - with a view to finding more about how a chain operates in China.

ohhhhhhhhhhh no silly me we have just got to accept the word of the wise and experienced - who like me have never worked for EF - the forum ayatollahs who's dogma we must unwaveringly follow. When they say shut up - we must close our noisy traps

funny thing is if I was an EF man right now I'd be saying - "OHHHHHHH NO R and C, please don't defend us - you're going to drag the EF thing right out in the open again - argggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh!"

[ytange]

Seems pretty crisp from where I see it

Count the money
Count the hours
Put that info into some high powered computer in NASA if you need too
or just work it out in your head

Still works out the same.

your are getting stung

chain school = chain gang

unless they give you some mind expanding goodies on this side

I know some characters in jail who are happy, Clark Kent
wots that prove

no thanks boss
I wanna my freedom

[Gregor]

I think it mostly depends on what you want to accomplish by teaching in China.
There are dodgy chain schools. There's no question. But they are no more risky than any other teaching ob for FTs in China. Plus, if you ask the right questions, you can find yourself actually being challenged, teaching different levels, different age groups, and doing so on your own (rather than having a translator in the class with you, or doing just "speaking" while the "real" teacher is a Chinese teacher for grammar and so on.
I prefer the chain schools. More personal development, even if there's not a lot of support. You still have a lot of practice doing these classes, and other members of the FT staff to help with ideas and so on.

It seems to be roughly the same pay, hour for hour. I don't really think that's a serious consideration, myself - I don't look at my job here as a wage-earner. I have a good salary - a very good salary, to live comfortably and save. I have a good place to live while I'm here, and the hours are not that difficult. I'm with Morris11 - compared to working in the U.S. this job is a cakewalk, even with EF hours (which, for most of the year, in MY center, anyway, is about 21 contact hours per week).
i think I did the hourly breakdown, and found that it was pretty low. I don't really care, though, because I don't want to have to hustle up more hours when things die down around the holidays. That is t say, some times during the year, the hours are REALLY REALLY low - I've done three weeks in a row when I only had about 10 hours a week, and the salary doesn't change. That's FINE by me.

Now, if you are only concerned about hourly wage (like they pay at a place like McDonald's, for example), then yeah, maybe a chain school with a set salary isn't so hot. Then again, if I do the ANNUAL hourly calculations, instead of the weekly, I think the pay goes through the roof.
I just this second thought of this. It will take me a few days, but I'll do that for the past year and see what I come up with (remember - I get OT for hours above 21/week, and the OT is about 100RMB/hour).

If you really want to put yourself through the hassle and insecurity ("Will I have enough hours to pay my bills this month??"), then chain schools aren't so great. Maybe. Also, and again, what kind of teaching do you want to do? What do you want to get out of your year teaching in China? That's really what you need to ask yourself. I know plenty of FTs here who DO more or less freelance (i.e. low salary for low hours plus the freedom to seek extra hours elsewhere), and they love it. They would never subject themselves to a set salary at a chain. And that's perfectly cool for them. But I don't want the hassle, and I'm not a wheeler-dealer salesman (which I think you'd have to be to be successful at the freelance thing). Not for me.
But I think that's really the issue more than anything else.

[vikdk]

not that I want to start a pay rage discusion but a gregor quote:

[Gregor]

Hey vik,
No bating intended. I didn't word that very carefully. I don't really know what the hourly these people that I know make (and I'm referring to personal acquaintances, not forum members). What I meant was that they have a salary, with which the obtained their Z visa (or whatever the government issues these days for work papers), but the monthly pay is low. By the hour, it may be really good. I don't know. But they only make 2000+RMB/month and have the contractual freedom to seek freelance work elsewhere.
You wrote:

[Jizzo T. Clown]

[Gregor]

By the way,
I just re-read what I wrote, and another possible benefit to working for a chain implied itself.
This, again, depends entirely on what your goals are in coming to China, and/or becoming an ESL teacher. But at a chain school, you might be able to work your way up. I became a DOS, and that pays a LOT more than entry-level teacher. A lot of chains offer this opportunity. If you are young and interested (or become interested) in a career in ESL, or, like me, you just wind up doing it for so long that it becomes, by default, what YOU DO, there are career paths.
For a DOS who REALLY tows the party (uh, er, um, COMPANY) line, there are even higher possibilities in the company. I screwed my chances for that by taking on the head office too often. I didn't do that HERE, and on this forum, I come off as a Company Man. but I'm not, and the head office knows it. I'm not going any higher than DoS. Oh well.
But there is that possibility, for those who are interested.

[vikdk]

sorry to hear about your sad story on corporate mountaineering Gregor - kind of makes EF look like a dead-end job for the brave "I don't tow the line rebel" like you, but a real humdinger for TESOL sheep

[vikdk]

hey jizzo thanks for the info - as far as professional developement is concerned that kinda depends on your qualifications and professional competance before coming here, but of course even a bucket full of that wouldn't cant prepare you for the "China factor" - so in that respect an EF does sound pretty good

Newbies note this clown guy doesn't seem to have a hidden agenda tucked under the carpet - like corporate advancement, a recruiting agency or dementia (who has that???) - just plain good ol' simple circus sense - best way of gettin an ol' sceptic like me to shut up

[ytange]

[Gregor]

Ho, hum...
I'm still lurking about here at this advanced hour. I need to get my beauty rest, because I have to go back to classes tomorrow morning, early. AND! I promised a class that I'd bring in my guitar and attempt to play Sam Cooke's It's A Wonderful World for them. But the wife is still in Shenyang, and I can't force myself to go to bed.
Pues.
I was going to make this a PM to vikdk, but what the hey?
Yes, for a brief period, I was thinking of climbing the EF ladder. I have no criticisms for those who do; they really believe in what they're doing, I suppose. I still say that it, and other chain schools, can be a good place to start, depending on what your goals are. And if you really take to the company, and/or the ESL thing, and want to make a pretty good life for yourself and work your way up, then it's a good way to go.
But, yes, I pissed off some people, as I am wont to do.
Go ahead, vik, and yuk it up. I had a good run, and I would still recommend the chain for newbies, especially, and also for those who want to see if they want to make more of a career of it.
I mean, really, even though I didn't get a job in the head office (and, more to the point, now that I know what I know, I don't WANT one), I got good experience from working for them. I got a lot - A LOT - of development as a teacher working for them in Indonesia, and then more so as a DoS, helping other new teachers in China. The experience I gained, and the diploma I earned a year ago, have combined to make me attractive to employers in other areas of ESL. I'm looking mostly at teacher training.
OK, and yes, that is also easy to laugh at - teaching people on a TEFL course. It's a down-and-dirty type of qualification, however you look at it. But it's also a useful one, and one that is in demand, still. So I part company with the big franchise that I talked about so much in the last year. I have no regrets, and, in fact, continue to say that, for the right person, the chain school is the way to go. It just depends on what that individual is after.