Job Discussion Forums

[Brooks]

what really sucks are people who teach because they don`t know what else to do with their lives.
Lots of people in the US try being teachers for a year, or two or three, then decide it is not for them. No shame in that.
If you can find a better job, go for it.

Sometimes I wonder if people don`t get it that teaching is about teaching people and is not just about grammar, vocab, etc.

Frankly in Japan, we have to lower our expectations. Teaching students to speak in English is the hardest thing, but at least my students improve their listening and knowledge of pronunciation, and spelling and reading.

I remember a teacher who told me that he didn`t teach pronunciation because it was too hard. But that is our job! We should teach what Japanese English teachers can`t do. Otherwise, why are we here?

[Sweetsee]

Brooks, I like what you said. I would take it one step further and say that it is about being able to get along with people, helping them to get along with eachother and creating a situation where everybody wins.

What we can't measure in our classrooms is the ability of some individuals to really click with us as non-Japanese, some are better at it than others but the students all know who is good at it. Through their work and the commitment of their teachers some are able to communicate effectively. It doesn't show up on test scores but they are learning valuable skills.


Have a great teaching afternoon,
s

[Yawarakaijin]

Well I'm not about to get into why any particular culture "sucks" or is superior to another but I have taught alot of different nationalities. I spent 5 years in Vancouver so this generalization ( and I do admit its a generalization ) comes from quite a bit of experience.

Granted there are many factors, cultural and otherwise which may lead a student to be a little less "chatty" or driven to succeed, but I would say that Japanese in general tend to be dissapointing.

Time after time after time when I had had classes full of a myriad of nationalities it was my Japanese student's who participated the least. OK, go on and flame away. "Oh but Japanese are shy", " Oh but Japanese culture does'nt push them to give their opinions so openly". Point taken, but I dont think anyone is arguing that fact. In general, whenever I taught a mixed class it was the japanese who were the least participatory/interesting/animated students.

I love Japan and I love teaching but I'm quite ready to admit I enjoy teaching Brazilians, Mexicans, Italians... ,well to be blunt almost any other nationality, more. Absolutely there are interesting and fun Japanese but in my experience they have been the exception rather than the rule.

Average ESL class conversation:

ME: Ok class, you have the vocabulary and you know how and where to use adjectives...Tell me, what do you think of Canada?

Mexicans:----10 minutes of just insane chatter and comparing ideas

Brazilians:---About the same as the Mexicans with just a few more
pronunciation problems

Europeans:--Little less chatty but grammar usually spot on.

Koreans:----Always trying to punch way above their belts with huge words
and trying to form complex sentences but trying hard.

Middle Eastern: Just enjoying the conversation, interjecting their ideas
when warranted. The younger ones are absolutely
hilarious. Usually chatting about the strip club the went to
the night before LOL

Japanese:----- I dont like. I like.........................SILENCE

In regards to a few particular comments made about Islamic culture. While I have never found the culture particulary fascinating I must admit that the most pleasant students I ever had in Vancouver came from Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Iran. Whenever we had pot luck parties at the school they would bring just insane amounts of food. Prepared by themselves or bought at a local middle eastern restaraunt. Alot of the other nationalities would try to pawn off the lunch their homestay mother made for them divided into four containers

I never heard the middle eastern students say a bad word about anyone. Sadly, that can't be said of some of my Korean students in regards to Japanese. It can't be said of some of my Japanese students in regard to Chinese. It can't be said of some of my European students to almost any other nationality of any other region.

ALL of this is generalization. It is however MY experience.

[Sweetsee]

Right on! That was too funny, and spot on.
Perhaps you could offer some insight as to why J-students are so sluggish?

[Brooks]

I have taught Arabs in Morocco, and while they generally were active learners, I do remember students bringing up Israel and getting a little too upset. I certainly never spoke of Jews or Israel.
I asked one student why he was talking about Israel.
Because you are American, and America is Israel`s friend, he said.
"America should have the Israelis move to America, then the Palestinians can have their land back."

There is no point in arguing. Just try to get back to teaching.

Nor did I like it when students wanted me to convert to Islam. No thanks.

At least in Japan, religion is a private and personal issue. That is the way it should be.

[Yawarakaijin]

Religion in Japan is a funny thing. While granted it may not be as "confrontational" or "in your face" as Islam or other religions it is deeply ingrained in the Japanese way of thinking.
I think that Bhuddism and Shinto had/have been the established religion here for so long without any competition that it has become imprinted on their national character. Ask why a Japanese person acts the way they do and they often come up with the answer " it's because I'm Japanese". When you look deeper at the " because I'm Japanese " answer you can often discover that that particular trait or style of reasoning is based on Bhuddist/Shinto doctrine. I'm not saying this is always the case, but often its true.

I find it very interesting that no one is "religious" in a country where almost every aspect of society is guided by a moral code which is heavily influenced in some form by religion.


Religions and societies develop in certain ways. Just because we have separated our civil codes from our religion does'nt mean that everyone else has to. From what I understand about Islam ( which is limited i admit) there is no seperation between religion and government. Who are we to critize them for that? Sometimes it seems like every negative aspect of the middle east is blamed upon the religion. More often than not our outlook on the way the world should be is extremely ethnocentric.

By the way, while the Japanese are not the type of people to force you into adopting their way of doing things.....Just try to act like a typical westerner, dont adapt at all to japanese customs, and see how well you are regarded in Japanese culture.

From what i understand and I may be totally wrong on this. It seems that islam is quite open to anyone who accepts it as their religion.

You can live in Japan your entire life. Have a Japanese wife. Work in a Japanese company. Speak perfect Japanese. Know all you want about the history or the culture. Have Japanese kids. And guess what.....you will NEVER be seen as "Japanese" and neither will your children. How is that for tolerance and acceptance?

Just so no one gets the wrong idea... hehe I love it here

[Brooks]

I disagree.
I find many Japanese to be not religious.
Some are of course.

I wouldn`t say that Japan has a moral code, but a group code.
And I think the emphasis on work in Japan is a substitute for religion.

In Islamic countries religion and politics are one.
Islam pervades life. That isn`t a bad thing, as long as the theocrats do not run the government.
Go to a big city in a muslim country before the sun sets before Ramadan.
After everybody has rushed home, walk outside on a usually busy street and you could hear a pin drop. Really amazing.
Islam, like Christianity, is a global religion. Muslims come in all colors, but at the Hajj, they all wear white, and walk together, regardless of their economic backgrounds.

But back to Japan, I think this country is changing, albeit slowly.
More immigrants will come.
Thing is, I don`t want to be Japanese and give up my Japanese passport.
I want to be an American.

[SEndrigo]

Well, even if you believe Islamic culture is more open to foreigners than Japanese culture is, I'll tell you this:

I'd rather be considered an outsider gaijin and not fit in in Japan, but live peacefully, than become a part of Muslim society and sacrifice my beliefs and values in order to fit in with them and their repressive culture.

Here's the bottom line: one silly cartoon in a newspaper caused an outrage in the Middle East. Why? Because they are CLOSED-MINDED and have no sense of humour.

No thank you. I'll stay in closed Japan, teach sucky students who don't participate, and live in a place where my life is not in danger because of my personal views/opinions.

OK, rant over

[Big John Stud]

SEndrigo wrote:

No thank you. I'll stay in closed Japan, teach sucky students who don't participate, and live in a place where my life is not in danger because of my personal views/opinions. OK, rant over

You think living in the middle east your life could be in danger because of your views/opinions?????
They are now threatening anyone from France and any other European country that a newspaper published those cartoons. In the middle east your life would be in danger just because the country of your birth did something that Islamic people take offensive!!!!!! Actually in this case, not the government of the country but a company, a newspaper company does something considered offensive to the Islamic faith. And doing something offensive is just about anything. Even have a race with men and women run together is consider offensive!!!!!!!

[Big John Stud]

One last thing, I notice a few threads about how teaching Japanese students suck! Why do you do it if it sucks? Specially the guy who claims to love the middle east and mexico but has been teaching here in Japan for 10 years. I truly feel sorry for you!!!!
Life is so short! No one knows for sure what happens after death. True we need money but living a balance lifestyle is more important. Balance with money, enjoyment and whatever else you fancy!
If any of you truly don't like what you are doing, you really need to think of alternatives!

[abufletcher]

Well, I'll just jump into this discussion one last time here to clarify that "sucks" is perhaps an overly emotional description which was said in the context of another highly emotional thread. Teaching Japanese (university) students is a whole lot less fun and a whole lot more work than teaching students from just about any other culture. That much is just fact. I speak from long personal experience here and I think anyone who has taught other nationalities will back me up on this.

Now, on the other hand, "teaching in Japan" (as a collection of balanced aspects) doesn't suck. In fact it's been quite good to me. It's a pleasant enough place to live. No worse no better than anyplace else I've worked on the whole. Living in Japan I've had the time and money to complete a Ph.D., I teach an interesting range of subject matter (sadly to students who couldn't be less interested), get paid a goodly salary with lots of perks, have several outside professional opportunities (teaching non-EFL graduate courses at other universities) and can be out of the country for up to 3 months a year. All in all, it's an attractive package and that's why I've stayed.

That last advantage is particularly important to me since my family is currently in the US. I earn a good salary here but not enough to pay for the sky-high costs of quality international school for two high school aged children and a daughter in college. So heading back to the US was the only serious option in terms of the the kids' education. We made the move duirng my (fully paid) sabbatical year a couple of years ago, and it just didn't make any educational sense for them to come back to Japan with me. I was however obliged to return both in terms of loyalty to my university which has just given me a "free ride" for a year and financial realities. I think my Mexican wife was also pretty tired of being stuck at home all day long with few opportunities for social contact.

In an ideal world I'd have a good job, doing just what I want in a great place together with the family. I'd even be willing to settle for a decently paying job (in my field) in a so-so place with the family. But even that doesn't look possible at the moment. So for the moment the best all-round solution is for me to stay at my job in Japan, do the best job I can with the students I have, continue to expand my professional options, stay in daily touch with the family via video chat, emal, and phone, make sure I can be there in person for three solid months a year, and hope that a neater solution presents itself soon. BTW, my brother has one of those "power jobs" in the US (investment banker) and he probably sees his family less than I do.

Finally, as for the culture of the Middle East, well the Middle East is comprised of a lot of different countries with a lot of different cultures and even different brands of Islam. Yes, you have to adapt your lifestyle more to the local culture when living in a Moslem culture than you have to in Japan. Though not much in the heavily moderized Gulf countries. BTW, there is actually a Club Med in the UAE. For my money having to adapt to local conditions is what living in a different culture is all about. The stranger the better! I don't honestly have to adapt much in Japan. In south-western Saudi Arabia (close to the Yemeni border) I regularly encountered people who had never seen a westerner. I gave a ride to one old gent who hadn't realized that there were other langauges beside Arabic in the world. And, yes, there were people who carried automatic weapons -- but the way a wealthy businessman might wear a Rolex, as a sign of social status. I had a nice friendly chat with a guy about my age with curly hair down to his back, wearing a crown of flowers, carrying an AK-47, two pistols on a bandolier holster, and a 12" dagger. That was just the way men in his tribe dressed. In Japan he would have been a salaryman.

Yes, there was (and still is) some (quite justifiable) hostility towards the US government but I, as an individual American, was always treated with respect. On the topic of being invited to convert to Islam, I always just saw that as a kind of complement akin to saying "You seem like a nice guy, the kind of guy that ought to be Moslem." BTW, I've also had born-again Christians in the US (the second most religiously dominatied culture I've lived in) ask me "How could a nice guy like you not believe in God?"

Oman, in particular, was a paradise of pleasant people, beautiful deserts, mountains and beaches, and most of the western amenities when you wanted them. Westerners could even get a liquour-licience and buy all the booze they wanted to from cut-rate government stories, if they so chose. I didn't. I think about going back all the time. But then a return to Oman would also be a return to my professional past as a language instructor vs. professor. And of course I have more free time to visit the family from Japan than I would from Oman.

So, are Japanese students disappointing? Absolutely. Is it worth giving up a good job with a fairly balanced life-style because of this? No. Not yet.

[abufletcher]

BTW, I'll throw in something ironic here. During a 6-week photo assignment in Yemen during the height of the Gulf War (Part I), when Yemenis were shouting "Saddam we give our blood to you" in the streets, in order to avoid some minor hassles, when asked what my nationality was, I'd say Danish! At the time that was just about as neutral as you could get with Canadian being a close second. I mean who could hate the Danish???

Guess that wouldn't work anymore.

[moot point]

Abu wrote:

[SEndrigo]

[moot point]

and you don't buy petrol?