Job Discussion Forums

[Shonai Ben]

I will never go "native" because in the eyes of the natives;I am always "gaijin".

[Lynn]

hee-hee, what a funny topic! I guess my going "native" was more like, "too embarrassed to tell the other ESL teachers"

SmapSmap (tv show, very funny, by the way)
J-pops (shameful, I know)
boots and mini skirts (yikes!)
pouring beer for others and enjoying getting my beer poured for me

Okay, I'll while I'm ahead.

[cafebleu]

In Japan you can`t really `go native`. You are forever being reminded you are a `gaijin` - literally `outside person` and if you can speak Japanese well, use chopsticks with no problem, read kanji (at least some), then you will inevitably get some Japanese who cannot handle it.

This will take the form of a put-down, such as `Oh, you can speak Japanese can you?, `Oh, you can write Hiragana/write or read Kanji can you?` by people who should know better as they know you have lived in Japan for some time. It seems to be a reflex response. A friend of mine did it to me, I replied to her when she spoke in English to me in the same way - `Oh, you can speak English can you?` `Of course I can`, she replied in an annoyed way. `Well, you know how long I`ve lived here - please stop asking me that same dumb question about can you speak Japanese` I replied.

She doesn`t say it anymore. Other refusals to accept you have become acclimitised well is when somebody needs help with a ticket machine. I told a (younger) person how to use it - she stared at me, refusing to believe that Japanese was coming out of a `gaijin` mouth and went and got the train staff man who told her exactly what I told her.

Always in Japan you will be reminded you are an outsider - you will never be allowed to go native even if you want. Have a good read of Rob`s Japan Faq - Know Before You Go. He offers one of the best analyses of the Japanese and their society that I have ever read, maybe the best.

[caesar]

Sorry I hurt your feelings, wolf.

on point #1
It was a stupid question. Just because you speak Japanese doesn't mean you're "going Native". If I study Latin am I "going Roman" or if I study Greek does that mean I'm "Going Greek"?
on point #2
Most people who don't learn a second "world language" usually are inbred decendants from peasants, including the monolingual inbred decendants of peasants in Portland, Oregon.

I'm not in Portland. I had to make up something to register here. I don't particularly WANT you or big brother to know where I am. I'm in cyberspace. That's enough.

Gotta go. Don't want BB to get my IP. Don't think he knows how to decode it from the database yet, but he can spy me if I'm online and posting.

Hey, moderators! What happened to my post in the "Godfather" string?

[Steiner]

[Cobra]

If an ESL/EFL teacher speaks, acts and looks like a local, what value do they have? There are enough local English teachers already! You got your job because you are not a native. The closer you become to being native the lesser your value as a western teacher.

Just my thoughts.

[Wolf]

[Roger]

In the classroom, I am the English/Western culture facilitator.
In public, I am a migrant, a foreign body trying to assimilate as best he can. I succeed to some extent, never will be a local, nor do I have the ambition.

[Cleopatra]

Cobra,
You seem to think that the job of an English teacher is to teach "Western culture" - whatever that is. I do not see my job in that way. There are lots and lots of "Western" languages - English is only one among many. The fact that I am a native speaker definately gives me an advantage over locals, but that is purely because of my greater familiarity with the language. I did not become an EFL teacher to impose my culture on others.

[MindTraveller]

Going native is like Heart of Darkness..... but being changed by the country or countries we've lived in is real.

After Arabic countries, I am much more relaxed and less in a hurry about things - sometimes a bit too lax. I also highly value vacation time!

After Saudi Arabia and in Indonesia, I got infected with an 'exploitation bug' which was really hard to get rid of. Made me dishonest and tired of people lying to me so I started lying back.

After Asia, I'm grateful for not having to work on Saturdays. Just getting up six days a week, with Saturday a half-day, was hell.

I'm also enjoy lots of foods from around the world.

There are countless other changes too. I continued on this career after starting in Saudi Arabia in 1984 because it has been the fulfillment of a childhood dream: to live and learn about cultures around the world. I've learned that most of human nature is universal, and that governments/countries/culture actually do shape individual personalities. Sure, I read that in books in college, but living it daily has helped me understand human nature better.

So no, I haven't gone native, but I certainly am no longer the American I was when I started living overseas.

[NumberOneSon]

[mr pink]

I think a good example, rather dramatic and extreme but why not, is T.E. Lawrence...aka Lawrence of Arabia.

This is the part where I say we were old pals, more like I read a couple of his biographies...what can I say, Peter O'tool got me hooked.

Lawrence's version of going native was dressing like the arabs, knowing their language and customs, and most importantly...sharing and believing in some of their values,,,particularly the right to nationhood and freeing the tribes of the middle east from Turkish and European rule.

"going native" could be adopting local beliefs or ambitions...so when people on the China board start saying things like..."some day I will lead a great army (my senior 1 and 2 students) to invade Japan..." or reply to every negative post about China with "China is developing"...you know they've gone native.

mr pink

[Corey]

[caesar]

[Wolf]