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yesteacher!
Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 31
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 Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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This was asked earlier on this thread, but does anyone actually have any information about the state of things at Fountain, GLV and TPR? Are they in trouble?
I worked at GLV and TPR in 2002-3 and I liked them, but I always had my doubts. I heard terrible things about Fountain here, but they Fountain sounded fine when I was in Zhuhai. I absolutely hated TPR. Simone the owner was/is a total snake, but otherwise fine.
GLV was a zoo, but I had a great time there. Too many of the teachers there were very earnest and if you weren't a Bahai you had no chance of making a career of it there, but the students were great and you got paid on time. If there ever was a mistake in regards to pay it was often in your favor.
I would love to know how these schools are fairing... |
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Plan B
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 266
Location: Shenzhen
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:19 am Post subject: |
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| yesteacher! wrote: |
This was asked earlier on this thread, but does anyone actually have any information about the state of things at Fountain, GLV and TPR? Are they in trouble?
I worked at GLV and TPR in 2002-3 and I liked them, but I always had my doubts. I heard terrible things about Fountain here, but they Fountain sounded fine when I was in Zhuhai. I absolutely hated TPR. Simone the owner was/is a total snake, but otherwise fine.
GLV was a zoo, but I had a great time there. Too many of the teachers there were very earnest and if you weren't a Bahai you had no chance of making a career of it there, but the students were great and you got paid on time. If there ever was a mistake in regards to pay it was often in your favor.
I would love to know how these schools are fairing... |
I am pretty well informed about the state of most of these schools.
We need to define exactly what makes a school bad. All the schools in question will pay on time. They even occassionally have the good grace to pay the overtime you are due.
I am an ex-Fountain School teacher, and since a year has passed, I can speak about the situation very objectively. The school used to be one of the finest in the city. When I arrived, it was very obvious that a solid infrastructure in place. They checked my references, and even interviewed me over the phone in my previous country. After my arrival, things deteriorated rapidly - most of the teachers were fired for dubious reasons without severence pay. We were made to teach 6 days a week - occassionally 7 with the extra duties that were thrown in. I was asked to prepare students for various exams or types of English with no material provided, which doubled my lesson preparation time. Teachers would turn up to school to be told that a private student had cancelled, yet the lesson would stand as a teaching hour. I could go on, but I think you get the general picture.
Now for the good........Recently, teachers who have started work at Fountain School are starting to say that things aren't so bad. There has been a 500 kuai increase in salary, and the say that they are paid on time (and correctly), and are generally treated fairly. It is quite conceivable that the management has seen the errors of its ways, and understands that continuity and teacher morale is essential for a school to prosper. I would love to hear from current Fountain School teachers about the situation.
I hear very mixed opinions about TPR. Some hate the place, while others have stayed for more than two years. The problem with both TPR and EF is that they recruit newbies from abroad, and they are paid the same as experienced professionals. I would probably recommend either of these schools for new teachers just starting out.
GLV is a place where you need to invest a bit of time - the starting salary is the lowest in town, but long-term teachers seem to do quite well for themselves. Strangely enough, I went for an interview there about 6 months ago and got rejected - considering I value myself reasonably highly, and am currently well paid for the work that I do, I found this rejection rather strange. I believe that they like to cultivate people into their own methods and ways of thinking.
Santana, from what I have heard, has gone down the pan, although teachers who worked there last year spoke quite fondly of the place.
My own school - Oriental English, at which I am the current DoS, has quite a lot going for it - obviously, myself for one! (only joking). We teach adults; no company classes, a reasonably laissez-faire attitude, and a general good atmosphere. But then, I would say that! |
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Gregor
Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 842
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| EF Directors of Studies use EF intranet, EF meetings, EF email system to communicate and clearly the communications go so wrongly that you probably know only your EF center, and little about EF franchise in China, but that's just my "uneducated remark", isn't it? |
Well, if that's what you think, then yes, that post shows a good deal of ignorance of my job. Just in case you're interested (and you are indeed showing a good deal of interest for some reason), the EF email system is so poorly designed as to be almost useless (sorry, EF people - I know you're reading this - so fix it), and the intranet has long since reached the useless point. I have no idea what you mean by "EF meetings;" in three years as a DoS and a number more at various EFs here and there, I never once heard of that.
They do have conferences, but I would have no idea who might attend them - I've never done so, nor have I ever been asked to do so.
In a way, it's too bad that the email system and intranet aren't better - they'd be useful tools - but I have never needed to rely on either one of them, and even if they worked, they'd just be bonus, AND only of use to the DoSes. Most teachers have no access to either one that I'm aware of.
Anyway, communications are FINE. If I need to talk to anyone connected with the center where I work, it's a short walk to his or her office or a local phone call. On the rare occasion I'd have to contact the head office in Shanghai, it's never been a problem, either by email or phone (gmail works a treat, as does China Telecom). There is a way for me to contact all of the DoSes in China at one go, and I have done so. But so what?
What do I need to know about the EF Franchise system in China? I know that there are more schools that I'll EVER know the names of. Are you telling me that the General Manager of, say, a Radio Shack in the U.S. is supposed to know where every location in the country is? Same basic thing. The wild guess would be, pretty much, "everywhere," and that's usually my guess about EF. But I don't particularly know of any other than the ones that happen to have crossed my path at one time or another. No reason why I should. I don't have anything to do with the head office. Just my center. |
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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:58 am Post subject: ESL schools in Zhuhai |
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Yesteacher, sorry to keep this off the topic and this is my last time to do it here. You guys have got to get some info on schools in Zhuhai, don'cha?
Gregor, you sound quite reasonable and objective, I've got to say.
Sorry, if I mislead you sometimes. I'd say that an EF center Accademic Director (especially one that's been with the franchise for a while) should know at least the franchised centers in the country that've been arround there for more than three years. There are only 60-65 EFs in China, so they can't be "EVERYWHERE", can they? And since you have taken steps to advertise on Director of Studies behalf, you should know more about the centers, should you not? But hey who am I to tell you what to do? You've been working for a sh*tty franchise, so you can do a "sh*tty job" with all due respect. Not that you've been doing a "sh*tty job" (but you are allowed to).
It's been my pleasure discussing farce EF with you Gregor.
Now Clark W Griswald, yes we know little about your experiences due to your unwillingness to "come out of that shell" you are in. Statements like "I might've worked there, but then I might not" are not unusual from you when you are asked to share your experiences with others. I hope you remember our previous EF discussions, when you could not or did not want to back up your unexperienced, unknowledgeble, and rather manipulative participation there. At times (not always) you know little about a topic, even though you get in to discredit and disencourage an unfortunate individual with bad ESL experiences as well as you try (at times) to manipulate the discussion. YOU ARE INVOLVED IN BUXIBAN SITE THAT ADVERTISES SCHOOLS, ARE YOU NOT? THAT MAKES YOU BIAS, DOES IT NOT?
And that's all for this thread from me, since I have little experience in Zhuhai's schools except their poor EF center.
Peace to all
And
Cheers and beers
Last edited by englishgibson on Fri Feb 17, 2006 5:44 am; edited 1 time in total |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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gregor now you admit to knowing nearly nothing about the EF schools in China (apart from your own) why did you whole heartedly endorse them in earlier posts  |
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Gregor
Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 842
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:59 am Post subject: |
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vikdk wrote:
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| gregor now you admit to knowing nearly nothing about the EF schools in China (apart from your own) why did you whole heartedly endorse them in earlier posts |
I don't remember doing that. I don't actually care enough to go back and look, but if you really wish to do so, I'd be interested in a quote.
I never intended to endorse the whole organization wholeheartedly. I don't think I have ever claimed to know more about it than I did and do. I only remember suggesting that it isn't a good idea for a teacher looking for a good job in China to discount an entire franchise because of a few people pissing and moaning about one or two schools, or because someone like you or englishgibson or whomever else disapproves, evidently, of the whole concept of the franchise.
I have said that EF can be a good place to get support and good experience, and it is a place where you can develop as a teacher and climb the ladder of ESL - at least the lower rungs of that ladder.
If you read THAT as a whole hearted endorsement, then I think that you and I have a different idea of what a whole hearted endorsement actually IS.
If, on the other hand, you can find a post that really does sound like I endorse the whole system across the board, I'd like to see it. But I'll also point out that I have chilled out about what may be construed as recruiting because I don't want to be misread or misrepresented (and I suspect that you are trying to do the latter). Any time I have suggested EF it was just to encourage teachers to give it a go and not automatically shy away from it - NOT because I care about the COMPANY, mind, but I care about helping newbies develop and hope that they have a good experience in a field that I enjoy working in so much. It's to help the teachers, NOT the company, and I have long been offended at the suggestion that anything different was the case.
And yes, I am aware that you WANTED to offend me, and I am aware that you don't really care about helping anyone, but rather hurting the reputation of a school. That's fine; it's a more or less free forum. But there. Say what you will, this is a statement of my reasons for coming on this board in the first place.
By the way, I'm leaving EF in two weeks, but I think you will still find that I defend them because the schools have the potential to be a good place to find a job, and I know a fair few about which I could state that as a fact. Things can always change. But the potential is always there. |
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Mytime
Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 173
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:06 am Post subject: |
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Isn't this the thread about schools in Zhuhai.
I'm sure there's a 'bash/defend EF' thread somewhere. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:40 am Post subject: |
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| Mytime wrote: |
Isn't this the thread about schools in Zhuhai.
I'm sure there's a 'bash/defend EF' thread somewhere. |
It's funny how certain members of this forum seem to spend 90% of their time here following around other members who have disagreed with them on previous threads. Imagine this was in real life - it would be kind of spooky 
As to the thread about Zhuhai schools well thanks to Plan B for his/her earlier post. It seems to sum up the situation in Zhuhai better than anyone else has been able to do. Too bad it took us all, myself included, three pages to get there  |
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Pepsi-Bones
Joined: 03 Oct 2005
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:10 am Post subject: |
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Well well.
Let me reiterate my views about Santana school in Zhuhai. This is based on my experience of living and working in Zhuhai.
It has cheated its staff shamelessly in the past 8 months. It has violated contracts. It has seen some 14 "western" teachers come and go since July 2005. Santana is currently advertising on Dave's and its advert quite deliberately is coy about the salary its teachers will receive. This means much lower wages than last year.
I will go further and say that in my opinion and experience that virtually everything that Santana promises in that advert will not be delivered.
Having experienced at first hand Santana I can say that :-
1)Teachers (including myself) contacted their Consulates about Santana's malpractice. The Consulates passed on these complaints onto the PSB. This is a fact.
2) I have since discovered that The "school" has no legal clearance / permission to employ any Westerner as teachers. The British Consulate was also concerned about Santana's (fraudulent it would seem) claim that it was a IELTS centre. Apparently this is news to The British Council which sponsors such things.
3) The School is corrupt in my opinion - and I have been told on very good authority (by a couple who discovered this sting before it was too late) that the Vice Principal of this School has repeatedly over -charged western staff for accommodation and has pocketed the balance.
4) I also have it on very good authority that Females working at Santana run the risk of sexual harassment by the self same Vice Principal. There are at least two counts that I know of.
I will happily give instances and name names should posters wish to contact me.
But please - let us not pretend Plan B ex of Fountain School Zhuhai - and others (Roger) who don't even work in the city at all - that a) Santana is the only bad apple in the bunch or that b) I'm a fantasist.
I know of a teaching couple (of shall we say advanced years) working at TPR in Zhuhai who again were treated shabbily. By late Autumn last year TPR had effectively frozen the husband's timetable. Axed him "for operational reasons" - leaving the wife to work and support the pair of them on just one salary. When it was time for the couple to return home to North America about one month ago - TPR attempted to renege on paying a bonus they owed the wife. "No one" TPR said "had claimed it before..."
This is how schools treat people in Zhuhai. Please be warned. |
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Pepsi-Bones
Joined: 03 Oct 2005
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:32 am Post subject: |
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This as a Post script.
Plan B. For sake of comparison.
How much did teachers receive per month at Fountain School Zhuhai?
How much does Pearl Oriental School Zhuhai currently pay?
Please tell - as I then will give the salary Santana School intends to give.
TESOL Man - please take note.
Let us deal with hard facts. Pay and Conditions. Not just opinions from people who have never worked in Zhuhai. |
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Plan B
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 266
Location: Shenzhen
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Pepsi-Bones wrote: |
This as a Post script.
Plan B. For sake of comparison.
How much did teachers receive per month at Fountain School Zhuhai?
How much does Pearl Oriental School Zhuhai currently pay?
Please tell - as I then will give the salary Santana School intends to give.
TESOL Man - please take note.
Let us deal with hard facts. Pay and Conditions. Not just opinions from people who have never worked in Zhuhai. |
At Fountain School we were paid 5000 a month with reasonably nice accomodation. Please don't get me wrong regarding my experience at Fountain - it was truly a horrendous experience. Without doubt, the worst school I have worked for. In my previous post, I was simply relaying the experiences I have heard through other people.
This being said, I would ask people to take the current good reviews of the school which are circulating around the web with a pinch of salt. I have been lead to believe that a collection of current Fountain School staff have been co-oerced into writing good reviews for the school in order to displace the many negative reviews that appeared last year. What I know for sure is that I don't know. It is quite possible that Fountain has gone through a miraculous recovery. Without any clear information regarding the school, I can not state anything as fact.
My current school - Oriental - is my forth. It is not without its problems, but I do find the environment reasonably pleasant.
Oriental School standardly pays 6000 plus 700 housing subsidary after a three month probation period of 5700 - however, the fee is higher or lower depending on experience. They pay on the 10th of every month, on time, and correctly. Any teachers who have left the school have received full severence pay, despite the fact that it is not even explicitly stated in the contract.
As I have stated before Pepsi-bones, we do agree on many issues - more than you might imagine. I came from a wonderful school in Kyrgyzstan only to be bitterly disappointed with the tricks and games they play in this little town. After my experience at Fountain, I stayed here for no other reason than the fact I had a girlfriend at the time who was unwilling to move on. The test of time has proved that once you become wise to the exploitation, you can actually succeed here - as my many friends here will happily confirm. |
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Pepsi-Bones
Joined: 03 Oct 2005
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:55 am Post subject: |
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| I believe that Santana will be offering 3,000 RMB to its teachers. This is half last year's advertised salary. |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:14 am Post subject: |
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| The test of time has proved that once you become wise to the exploitation, you can actually succeed here - as my many friends here will happily confirm. |
maybe not just a lesson for Zhuhai - but for China as a whole  |
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Roger
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:05 am Post subject: |
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When FTs can swagger and proclaim "the market dictates that our hirers pay 10'000" then we all are happy...
When the market forces allow the employers do drive down their offers FTs are up in arms decrying it as "exploitation"...
Methinks some guys are applying double standards! |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| When FTs can swagger and proclaim "the market dictates that our hirers pay 10'000" then we all are happy... |
Surely most of us can understand the message - why accept the market offer when we can negotiate a higher sallary
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| When the market forces allow the employers do drive down their offers FTs are up in arms decrying it as "exploitation"... |
Does anyone know of an area in China where FT wages are actually decreasing? If there is such a place and the FT's there don't put up a bit of fuss - methinks they probally deserve it
sorry that was abit off topic but the last post did seem a bit odd |
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