Job Discussion Forums

[Khrystene]

...is there a certain percentage of men out there who come to Central/Eastern Europe allegedly to teach English but with the sole aim of PICKING UP 'pretty' girls or women here who aren't as 'feisty' or 'argumentative' as women back 'home'? It smacks of the Asian or Russian bride thing....

THis is not meant to offend those men out there who are great teachers and work very hard at their jobs and are here to learn something as well as teach... This is for those others, who I seem to keep crossing paths with...

Cheap, submissive women at your beck and call?! Is that it??

[spiral78]

I absolutely agree! I have seen a fair percentage of guys who fit that description over the past eight years. But I think things have changed in many countries, in terms of how Central/Eastern European women genarally view these guys. I'm clipping here a piece of my reply to Mick Luna when he noted on his 'fair sex' thread that he wants hot, humble women.

Having lived in the Czech Republic and other European countries for the past eight years, I've noticed a common phenomena.

In the past, westerners carried a certain cache for Czech girls (I will use the CR for comparison since I have the most direct experience there, though my Bulgarian, East German,and Polish friends say the same things on this issue). It was often implicitly assumed that western men were better-off financially, more sophisticated, probably better-educated and generally were considered to be good catches. Hence, they were pretty universally pursued by beautiful Czech girls. Those girls were raised in a culture where women generally took what westerners consider to be a more traditional role in a relationship (which can appear to be pretty 'humble').

But the tide has turned here: those girls now have strong enough English skills and have traveled, and they can recognize that many of those western guys are really just drifters. Not that there's anything wrong with being a drifter, but it used not to be so obvious to Eastern European women who were looking for someone to actually have long-term relationships with.

Their standards have changed; they generally look for guys who have more substance in terms of education, ambition, and etc. It's only fair, since those girls are themselves well-educated, hard-working, ambitious, and well-traveled. That's not arrogance - it's equality

That's obviously not speaking to those who are really just out for a good time, both girls and men, but to those lopsided relationships that come up when the girl 'humbly' hopes that this guy is going to be a real partner to her.

Interestingly, I've talked to some language school owners in Prague over the past year who are now seeing some numbers of North American guys coming to try to get jobs teaching, simply to be near the children they've had with Czech girls. The usual case is that they met in Prague, were married, moved to the States or Canada, and then the women realized that they were much better off in the CR, usually because those guys looked great as English teachers, but back home they were basically just flipping burgers.

[khmerhit]

Look---
Men are humans, not superhumans. We can't all be president of Microsoft, not these days, not never... I rather resent the tone of the above characterizations...
and I know exactly what you are talking about, having been typecast (wrongly) in the past as just such an opportunist. The implication, that Eastern European women have somehow been duped by these less than successful (whose definition) men, leads one to ask about the motives of the women in question... Ah, so they are realizing they have been hoodwinked, and their expectations are coming up to par with those (exaggeratedly high ones) of Western women? What does that say about them, exactly, and their motives? It's pretty clear, and rather mercenary, and not a little hypocritical, generally speaking. If you look a bit closer you might see how many women used these 'unsuccessful' guys as stepping stones into the US, then ditched them after a few years of sullen disillusion. Ask any immigration lawyer. The point is, we all come up against one thing, men and women, and that is the reality of the present economy. viz...

[spiral78]

I take your point about some women using western men for immigration purposes. But I don't think that expecting someone you wish to have a long-term relationship with to be at least equal to yourself in terms of education and job expectations constitutes ' exaggeratedly high expectations' or mercenary motives. Remember, the women I'm specifically talking about have returned from North America to the Czech Republic to raise their children on their own, or are avoiding those freewheeling backpacker types, and seeking more equal relationships. There's no hypocricy in that.

I still think that's progress, that the mystique that 'western' by itself equals 'educated, hardworking, and sophisticated' has faded away. Certainly not to imply that many (even maybe most!) western guys are not educated, hardworking and sophisticated!

[Chasgul]

I'm the scum of the universe. I met my wife-to-be in Oxford, followed her to Bulgaria and married her for the visa and right to work. We're still arguing over who hoodwinked who.

By the time something becomes a stereotype that implies that people are already wise to it.

[mick_luna]

Thank you for putting things in perspective, Khmerhit.
As for the OP, who loves to jump to unsavoury conclusions based on her own sordid fantasies:
I love it that someone openly stating their desire to find a mate is automatically assumed to be a pervert. That seems to say a lot more about the person doing the the name-calling than it does the alleged 'perv'.

Obviously there are a lot of men (johns and pimps and sugar daddies) trying to exploit women and girls, and lots of women and girls trying to exploit men (prostitutes, trophy wives, ladder climbers and couch casting coochie mommas). There are probably a lot more people who actually would like to find that dirtiest of words, love. I am one of them. I know i fully deserve to be crucified for that crime, given the hatred that seems to fuel this world, but there it is.

[Khrystene]

I beg to differ... I rarely jump to 'unsavoury' conclusions, and was responding to the observations I have made in my years teaching here in Poland.

I agree there are some women in this neck of the woods who are 'gold diggers' like anywhere.... however as Spiral78 pointed out, more often than not, the women here are looking for a serious commitment. They are 'duped' by the cultural differences which some 'western' men [drifters as Spiral78 so succinctly put it] bring with them.

I mean that, some men, I said SOME, come here for a good time, and there's nothing wrong with that, BUT they forget that women and culture here is very different. Whereas women in their native country might understand the idea that it's only sex, women are more serious about their relationships, and when they are treated to all the trimmings, even though they're actually just a tasty morsel, they are quite easily confused into thinking it's a REAL relationship.

If you take offence at what I've said, I don't apologise. It's my personal observation, and that of many of my peers.

Yes Polish women are changing, and adapting to the wider cultural differences they're experiences with men from outside PL. Many women won't even touch a Polish man, for various reasons. I personal don't find many Polish men attractive, though there has been one or two who have stood out.

In the end, honesty is always the best policy.

[Khrystene]

[Seeker of truth]

[Lady Penelope]

Have to say, I'm single & I love skiing in Italy & it isn't just for the snow!

May get a job there yet!

[robvermont]

My friend who worked in Japan teaching said it was awful how some men took advantage of the situations and they were labled LBH (loser back home). I have met a lot of British and Americans who, quite frankly, would not stand a chance at meeting an attractive girl back home but suddenly become "brad pitt" on arrival. I cannot say I blame them for taking advantage of the situation! My question though is: I married a Swede that I met in the US...Is my wife an LBH or was I an LAH (loser at home)?

[spiral78]

It's overgeneralising to say that every relationship between people from different cultures is a relationship between losers of any description! Probably neither you or your wife could be fairly labeled this way, right?!

This thread's about those particular western guys who basically are underachievers in their home countries, but put on a face to wow girls who can't see the reality of the situation.

I suppose that cultural differences play a big part as well - since the girls I know in the Czech Rep and Poland don't really date casually. They're more likely to be looking for real, long-term relationships than many western young women are, and it's easier for them to misunderstand both what those western guys want, and what they have to offer in a relationship.

[robvermont]

[spiral78]

[Khrystene]