Job Discussion Forums

[Gordon]

[Glenski]

[Mark]

I don't really see anything wrong with Nova teachers socializing with their students or even with dating them. Yes, it's a risk and could turn very awkward, but they're all adults and it's their choice. If Nova teachers are willing to take the risk, then that's up to them.

I used to teach at ECC and almost never socialized with students. I think that in ECC Tokyo "schools" it's relatively uncommon to socialize with students. If teachers really want that, Aeon might be a better choice as they seem to encourage teacher-student socialization.

The main advantage Nova has is that it's the biggest chain school in Tokyo (and Japan) and as the classes are all drop-in, you'll meet a large number of students.

And I think it's not unreasonable to expect that a Nova teacher might come out of the experience with a couple of real friends or possibly a partner. But I've never taught at Nova so I don't really know what it's like.

I also wonder about the cost. Nova's new salaries are lower and Tokyo is really expensive. I don't see how the average Nova teacher could go out with students twice a week and still afford to go out on the weekend.

[PAULH]

Just to add to the debate,

I teach at a university and have taught at NOVA in the past and have dated students while at NOVA myself. My wife is a former secretary at the language school we both worked at.

With university teaching there is always the potential that you will show favoritism to a student that you are dating or see socially, and that you will pass a student who should have actually failed, or you will bump their grade up. Sometimes its very difficult to give a failing grade or a lower score to someone you are intimately connected to.

Many schools also institute teacher evaluations by students, where by the students rate teachers performance and this can affect teacher promotions, contract renewal etc. In some cases unless you show preferential treatment which is sometimes demanded by one or two students, you may find yourself on the wrong end of an evaluation. I know in universities some students have threatened to go to the school with accusations of sexual harassment unless they get a higher score.

Another issue is that of sexual harassment. there is a fine line between socialising with students and actively propositioning them. Asking a student out for dinner can sometimes be construed as unwelcome attention and the new foreigner doesnt always know when he has crossed the line. The foreigner is in a new country, doesnt speak the language and doesnt always know what is acceptable behavior, and NOVA seems to promote this idea of a place where students can meet and come into contact with young, good-looking foreigners. What may be flirting may be construed as sexual harassment in some cases.

Universities have very strict policies against teachers meeting students privately off campus, asking for phone numbers and email or making suggestive comments. Im not saying its like that at NOVA, but i did hear one story of a new teacher at NOVA asking out a female student in her very first lesson. She complained to the office and the teacher was fired the same day.

Often teachers have this idea that they can use the classroom to matchmake and set up dates with students and its very hard for students to say no on occasion. Its all very well if there is a common attraction between student and teacher but often the attraction is only one way.

I have not worked at NOVA for a long time, but I believe sometimes stalking of teachers by ex-girlfriends is also a big problem. where a student becomes enamored of a teacher, or a relationship goes sour and the student takes a break-up badly. Following the teacher home, waiting for him outside of class and i can create problems for the teacher and other students.


As for the issue of socialising with co-workers etc that is done the world over, but in a classroom situation you are essentially in a power relationship, where you may have control over a persons grade, whether they advance or not and its not an equal relationship. I have gone out for dinner with students etc but i would be careful to avoid one-on-one outings but tend to stick to larger groups when meetings students outside of school. that way rumors about favoritism etc dont tend to get spread about the teacher.

[Gordon]

I think it is fairly common to have schools include a clause prohibiting you from dating students for that very reason. However, socializing and dating can be very different. Like you said, meeting in groups is pretty inocuous, so Nova really shouldn't stop teachers from going out to movies with their class IMO.

[Mark]

As to what PaulH said, I definitely think there's a world of difference between a university and Nova.

In a university, there are power and authority issues. The prof is probably much older than the students and controls their grades. I think most universities around the world would seriously frown on profs dating students (especially undergrads) although I'm sure it happens.

In Nova, the teacher essentially has no power over the student. Students join for all sorts of reasons, and I'm sure many join because they don't have any other opportunity to talk to foreigners.

And as for asking students out, I don't see any way that a teacher could ask an individual student out on a date. In a group class, that would be way beyond awkward and kind of insulting to the other students. Even in a private class that would still be very awkward. I assume what most people do is invite the class or announce throughout the day that they'd like to have a drink after work and any students are welcome to come.

If, over time, it becomes clear that a teacher and a student are attracted to each other, I can see a teacher asking a student out after class or in the lobby or something, but asking out a student you've just met while in a group class is really weird. I find it hard to imagine somebody doing such a thing.

Frankly, a very high percentage of the foreign teachers I know met their wife or partner at work. Either a student or a staff member.

And the reason I didn't socialize with students at ECC wasn't because I disapprove of that sort of thing, it was because the vast overwhelming majority of the students I met there were salarymen and housewives. Attractive and interesting female students in their twenties were as common as an oasis in the desert. Same with the staff. The staff were always super busy and didn't seem particularly interested in talking to the foreign teachers.

[Glenski]

[Glenski]

[Gordon]

[Nagoyaguy]

I think that of all the eikaiwa in Japan, NOVA is the only one with this clause. I can see the problem with teachers hitting on and dating students, harassing them, or propositioning them. THis can be dealt with in other ways. Simple social interaction between adults is another thing altogether. NOVA, as often happens in Japan, went waaaay overboard when one problem occurred. They clamped down too hard.

Plus, the policy applies to ONLY the foreign staff. It does NOT apply to the Japanese staff. Clearly discriminatory.

When I worked at GEOS, we were encouraged to meet students after class. The school even arranged parties! Aside from that, there were no problems. Going out as a group for cocktails after 900pm was very common-teachers together with some of the 'cooler' students.

The bottom line is that the school needs to be more careful in its screening and interview process. Don't hire people you think will damage the school reputation in the first place!

[Mark]

[osakajojo]

[Currawong]

I worked in Nova in 1998 and my experience regarding socialisation was that it entirely depended on the managers you had. At one school, we'd go out drinking with students, including some who were only in high school.

We were told the reason for the rule was that a teacher, some years back, had got a teenage girl pregnant at a party of students and teachers, causing tremendous amounts of trouble for the company. I'm surprised that story hasn't surfaced in this forum, as everyone seemed to know it!

I too knew teachers who married their students, but avoided the question by saying "My wife may once have been a Nova student in the past, but not at this school/before I came to Japan/etc."

When I transferred schools, I discretely gave out my phone number to the students I liked and ended up dating a couple of them. As they weren't at my school, any issues that arised couldn't effect my work nor anyone else.

The problem the Japanese have with gaikokujin is, unlike everything else in Japanese society, we are so varied and unpredictable in how we can be. Obviously the worst of us give everyone else a bad name. Look at the big deal they are making of the Chinese woman who went crazy and killed two of her daughters classmates. The focus is on Chinese living in Japan, not on mental health!

Edit: I've been doing some reading, apparently the non-socialisation clause in the contract is now illegal:

[stillnosheep]

The 'pregnant teenager' justification for Nova's policy is a myth. It resurfaces every few months in a slightly different form (under-age girl overnighting/schoolgirl taking drugs at teacher's party etc).

The clause has been ruled unenforceable again and again in the Japanese courts. The courts cannot prevent people from signing away their legal rights. They can howerver find against Nova every time they are taken to court for attempting to enforce such a flagrent interference in employees rights and freedoms. And they do.

As some have said it is a catch-all clause, used whenever Nova wish to get rid of someone without having any legal cause to do so. I have seen Nova teachers become uncomfortable because somebody else has walked into a restaurant with a Nova student from a different city and sat down at the same table as they were at. This is absurd, although, in theory, by remaining and finishing their meal rather than immediately exiting the restaurant without speaking to the student they are committing what Nova claim to be a breach of contract worthy of dismissal.

Thank gawd for Japanese courts and teachers' unions.

[Jazz1975]