Job Discussion Forums

[email protected] · Joined: 22 Apr 2004 Posts: 67

Yamanote-sensei- We agree that the school boards don't save money by using dispatch companies. And while they don't know who the dispatch company will send them, they CAN tell a dispatch company to replace a teacher that is no good. That is the crux of the matter.

Governments- both central and local- almost never fire anyone. And after 3 years, it is IMPOSSIBLE to fire anyone. That is the problem.

As a matter of fact, I would like to see all teachers hired directly. I would like to see a floor salary of 300,000 yen per month or more. I would like to see an education degree as a qualification to teach in Japan. But you also have to allow boards to fire incompetent teachers. And unfortunately there are a lot of them out there.

And this is my greatest problem with teachers' unions. They don't care at all about a teacher's competence; if the teacher pays his union dues, they will fight to the bitter end to save his job. I witnessed 3 of the most incomptent teachers imaginable form a union only to save their jobs. Those 3 teachers were causing immense problems not only to management but to the other teachers as well. Students as well were quitting daily because of their incompetence. In came the union lawyers from Tokyo to fight on their behalf and they almost destroyed the school. The remaining teachers- the vast majority- tried to meet with the union lawyers to tell them the real story and were told to get lost.

When teachers' unions address the issue of quality of teaching and competence, I might support them. Right now they are the biggest obstacle around to achieving that end. Teachers' unions are as greedy and selfish as any company out there.

stillnosheep · Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 2068 Location: eslcafe

[email protected] · Joined: 22 Apr 2004 Posts: 67

Come on Stillnosheep, keep it civil.

Besides, I completely agree with you- you need a justifiable reason to fire someone after a year's employment. Actually I thought it was three months.

Where, pray tell, did I say otherwise? What I did say was it is almost impossible to fire an employee for ANY reason after three years.

Get your facts straight. And again, get off the name calling.

stillnosheep · Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 2068 Location: eslcafe

Wot name calling? No one has called anyone any namesd. You wrote a load of bollox, so I referred to it as bollox.

The Labour laws apply to all industries. Yet not all industries have moved into hiring via dispatch. Therefore your assertion that BoE's have done so because of Japan's Labour Laws is a load of Bollox. Which is what I called it.

Don't present nonsense and piffle as fact on a public forum if you don"t like being exposed as a purveyor of gonads.

eslteach555 · Joined: 09 Apr 2004 Posts: 18

I think the Gimp was probably objecting to "annus miserablis," which was quite uncalled for. There is nothing wrong with, "bollox," except what he says is not ballox.

Everyone agrees that using dispatch companies does not save money. The only reason clearly is that school boards can request a teacher be removed.

Actually they are seldom fired, just transferred somewhere else after some, "retraining."

stillnosheep · Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 2068 Location: eslcafe

[email protected] · Joined: 22 Apr 2004 Posts: 67

Most posters seem to believe that dispatch companies cost the boards more, but we can argue that for a long time. The same thing about the "illegality" of the dispatch contracts. I just don't see how they can be illegal when so many boards have been using them for so long now. YOu may beleive them to be illegal but for all intents and purpose they are legal.

You and I may be much closer than it appears at times. I would prefer to see teachers hired directly by the boards. I would like to see a government legislated minimum wage for teachers of about 350,000 a month. I would force the boards to hire only people with teaching certificates.

I would also like to see some kind of system or resolve on the part of the boards to assess teachers and get rid of the bad ones. I've just seen too many incompetent teachers staying on year after year because they can't be fired, either due to lack of resolve on the part of the boards or more likely fear of teachers' unions. We don't tolerate incompetent doctors or pilots but we allow all kinds of bad teachers to keep on teaching. This is my biggest knock on teachers' unions- there complete unwillingness to deal with the issue of bad teachers.

stillnosheep · Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 2068 Location: eslcafe

Double post

stillnosheep · Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 2068 Location: eslcafe

[email protected] · Joined: 22 Apr 2004 Posts: 67

The trouble is the union ALWAYS believes the member is being treated unfairly or illegally

stillnosheep · Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 2068 Location: eslcafe

Unfounded and untrue assertion.

And in those cases where the Union believes the member to be in the right it is within the rights of the employer to stick to its guns and win it's case (and costs) in court.

Sweetsee · Joined: 11 Jun 2004 Posts: 2302 Location: ) is everything

And what of me, one more contract and all, c'est la vie?

abufletcher · Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 5:30 am Post subject:

The problem here is that I just don't see how an employer could go about PROVING in a legal sense incompetence. I'm not talking about stuff like missing classes or failing to do some administrative task, which would be simple to document. I'm talking about teachers who just plain suck as teachers. This sort of incompetence might be plainly obvious to all involved but difficult to prove in court.

I have to say that the 3 year rule has worked both for us and against us (us being the English department) in the past. We've had to say goodbye to outstanding teachers we would like to have kept on but we've also been thankful for it on those occasions when we got stuck with a real lemon (and there's been a few). This BTW points out that methods for hiring need to be revamped as much as methods of firing. As long as we are getting what amounts to RANDOM HIRES we need to be able to get rid of the bad apples without an hassles. In some ways Japanese universities are just too darn kind, we've always kept even the most inept teachers for the full 3 years. I can tell you from experience that in the Arabian Gulf these teachers would have been gone at the end of the first year's contract!

abufletcher · Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 5:38 am Post subject:

I'll add that IMHO just about anything that brings more bureaucracy and legalistics into the teaching environment is a BAD thing! I've seen the beancounters and lawyers destroy the US school system and I'm not in the least tempted to see similar "rights and freedoms" take hold overseas.