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		| 7969 
 
  
 Joined: 26 Mar 2003
 Posts: 5782
 Location: Coastal Guangdong
 
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				|  Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:20 am    Post subject: textbook/classroom dilemna |   |  
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				| up until this point in time i was only required to conduct oral english classes. classes in which i was in control of what material i decided to use in the classroom, material that can easily be adjusted depending on student level of proficiency. however this term is different. 4/8 classes i am supposed to be using a textbook called "classic management cases." this  book is being used at an economics and business college. i have yet to use the book, as i was just given it, and have only just met 2/4 classes where i am supposed to use it. however, these 2 classes i've met so far are weak in oral english. further, the class numbers are about 120 students per class. 
 here's an excerpt from the book, chapter 1:
 
 "After cooperation with great wall electronics corporation, TCL launched large screen color TV products to the domestic market in 1993. With the process of "planned promotion" strategy, its market share went up steadily. Especially at the end of 1993, TCL Communications Equipment Corp. was listed in Shenzhen Stock Exchange. Coupled with the effect of the advertisements featuring the ..........."
 
 essentially its a text of different case studies from the business world. human resources, logistics, marketing, organization and so on. the text appears to be bilingual, chinese/english, however i have no idea what to do here. first of all, the school just gave me the schedule and the text. of course, no guidance whatsoever. if all i'm expected to do is go in and read this text from page 1 to page 279 with the class, and not have to explain too much (if anything) i think i can do it. however, i am almost sure that i will be unable to explain most of this terminology in context to these students (satisfactorily). in fact, after glancing at the book quickly, i think a lot of native english speakers wouldnt understand it all.
 
 in any event, any advice is appreciated from anyone who's encountered a similar problem in the past. in the meantime, i will be contacting the dean of our dept. to get some idea of what i'm supposed to be doing here.
 
 7969
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		| fluffyhamster 
 
 
 Joined: 13 Mar 2005
 Posts: 3292
 Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
 
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				|  Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:07 am    Post subject: |   |  
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				| You could get the (stronger) students to verbally summarize the text (i.e. what it's generally about) once they are reasonably familiar with it, and others to think of follow-up comments or questions. If the whole text proves too long and/or difficult, or they simply regurgitate what's written pretty much word-for-word, then you might need to present simplified versions or highlight the relevant passages and give them correspondingly shorter times to prepare their thoughts and comments. 
 I'd try to look upon it as a chance to give your oral communication classes some sort of content that perhaps was lacking somewhat before. The kind of class I'm imagining as a result is where the students inform each other about business news, developments and issues, kind of like one might if one were browsing through a copy of the FT or something over coffee. You could write some dialogues yourself based upon the written texts, in order to show students how things might be "translated" into speech (and there's no reason you can't get away from the text and back in to the sort of phrases and functions you were covering before, if you think they'd be the more valuable to learn; this way you can appear to be doing what's been given to you whilst dealing with the bigger picture).
 
 But I agree that it does sound a little tough if you've got large classes in which the students' abilities can vary, and little or no additional time in which to prepare or bring their general English levels up some, especially if the book becomes as complex as it progresses as you are making out (the excerpt from page 1 doesn't appear to be impossibly difficult or too loaded with terminology, however...some useful words in there that some of the students may well already know. Not sure if it is a genuine (that is, native-speaker) piece of writing, though).
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		| Spiderman Too 
 
 
 Joined: 15 Aug 2004
 Posts: 732
 Location: Caught in my own web
 
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				|  Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:58 am    Post subject: |   |  
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	  | classic management cases |  I strongly suspect that is not the full title of the book.
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		| 7969 
 
  
 Joined: 26 Mar 2003
 Posts: 5782
 Location: Coastal Guangdong
 
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				|  Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:18 pm    Post subject: ........... |   |  
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	  | Spiderman Too wrote: |  
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	  | Quote: |  
	  | classic management cases |  I strongly suspect that is not the full title of the book.
 |  thats the english title. from wuhan univ. of technology press.
 
 this book does get progressively more difficult. the excerpt i quoted was from the first couple of pages. with the class i had today, after seeing how weak they are in spoken english talking about their activities over the chinese new year, and me being unable to impart much information to them in their native language (not the point of me being there anyway), i cant see this being much more than a reading exercise. halfway through this book, i can see students would just be hitting the dictionary for every single word..... i've only met these students once so far, they could surprise me, however based on what i've seen in two years in china, i doubt it. my first impressions have been pretty accurate.
 
 i hate to say it, but i just dont see me teaching this textbook effectively. it contains jargon that SOME native english speakers might struggle with. i'll let my school deal with it, i've already let them know i dont think its suitable for me to do this.
 
 7969
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		| Brian Caulfield 
 
 
 Joined: 14 Sep 2004
 Posts: 1247
 Location: China
 
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				|  Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:45 pm    Post subject: |   |  
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				| There is all sorts of things you can do with this text. Dictations for example . I am doing a different type of dictation this year. I have one student read to the rest . They read word by word . I correct the pronunciation . You can test them by giving them a selection of passages in Chinese and have them translate them intoEnglish . You can do jigsaws . A jigsaw is group work . you put them in groups of five . You have five quetions from the book on the board . You have each of the five chose one topic . That person must go to a large group and discuss the qestion they have chosen and then they go back in the original group and each person takes a turn telling the small group what was discussed in the large group . Chinese kids like this . They become active students both physically and mentally . You can go around and help them individually and be more productive with the knowledge you have in teaching conversational English . Do some sequencing exercises with the book . Chop the paragraphs or sentences and put them in random order then have them put them in proper order or the order the text has them in.
 Don't expect too much from them . China biggest problem and other countries I have worked in is that the powers to be always choose books that are way too difficult for the students and in my case the capability of the teacher .
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		| Spiderman Too 
 
 
 Joined: 15 Aug 2004
 Posts: 732
 Location: Caught in my own web
 
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				|  Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:31 pm    Post subject: |   |  
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				| I still don�t understand what subject you have been asked to teach, but, anyway �. 
 I teach Managing Financial Resources and Decisions. Unlike oral English classes at some schools, it is a real subject that requires real teaching and involves real exams, the results of which will be audited by external assessors. There is no scope, and absolutely no time, in these classes to play games, sing songs or do any other activities not directly related to the subject.
 
 Is your school asking you to teach a subject along these lines?
 
 At my college I get 2 hours teaching credits for every hour taught. My contract requires me to teach 14 periods per week. I teach 4 periods of MFR&D and that counts as 8 periods of my contract. I teach English for the other 6 periods.
 
 The reason for the �double credits� is that teaching a subject such as this, in English to non-native English speakers, requires A LOT of preparation.
 
 I thoroughly read each chapter before teaching it, highlight words that I feel the students will not understand, and I prepare explanations and analogies to use in class. I have also prepared a glossary of translations, which I have posted below and which may be useful with your subject.
 
 Preparation is the key. It is simply impossible to �wing it� teaching a real subject such as economics, finance, business management, etc.
 
 A
 
 abide -遵守
 accelerated depreciation 加速折旧
 action plan  行动计划
 actual appropriation 实际到帐资金
 agency -代理处
 agent  代理人
 aid - 帮助 / 有助之物
 allotment of shares 配股
 alternative - 选择
 alternative method = 交替法 / 变异法
 appeal (解决争端)上诉
 appeal body 上诉机构
 apportionment of expenses 分摊费用
 apportionment of valuation 价值分割
 approval rate  支持率
 articles of associations - 公司章程
 attorney / lawyer / solicitor  律师
 audit fee = 审计费
 average annual growth rate 年平均增长率
 
 B
 
 bad loan / bad account/ bad debt 坏帐、呆帐、死帐
 bad patch =  段困难时期
 balance-of-payments 收支平衡
 bankrupt - 破产
 base rate =基本利率
 bear market = (熊市) 卖空市场, 空头市场
 bill of lading  提单
 binge - splurge =  大吃大 /  挥霍
 blue chip = 蓝筹股
 bonds = 公债
 boom-and-bust cycle 经济繁荣与萧条交替循环
 brainstorm - 正在想一个好主意
 brand recognition 品牌认可/认同
 bridging loan 临时贷款
 broadly speaking - 一般地说 / 泛泛地说
 buffer fund 缓冲基金,平准基金
 building society = 房屋建筑会 / 建筑社团
 bull market = (牛市) 旺市 / 价格上涨的市场
 business cycle 商业周期
 buy with cash in hand 持币待购
 by and large - 总的来说
 
 C
 
 capital 1 = launch capital - 创办资本
 capital 2 = capital asset - 资本资产
 capital 3 = principal - 5000美元本金的利息是多少?
 capital account 资本项目
 capital contribution - 认缴资本
 chain of command 控制链
 change the method of operation 转化经营机制
 channel = 引导 / 开导
 charge -留置权
 cheque / check -支票
 chief provider =首要提供者
 classify - 分类  / 分等
 colloquial =  白话的 / 口语的
 commission =  佣金
 common-law 习惯法
 competitive bidding 竟价投标
 complex - 复杂的 / 复合体
 compulsory third party insurance 第三者责任法定保险
 concentrated marketing  集中性营销
 concept =  概念 / 观念
 consistent =  始终如一的 / 一致的
 constitution - 组织宪法
 constraints =  系统规定参数 / 限制的
 consumer confidence 消费者信心
 consumer goods  消费品
 context - 上下文
 contingency account 意外准备金帐户
 contract of future delivery 远期交货合同
 contracting party  缔约方
 controlling stake 控制股
 copyright licensing business 版权贸易
 corporate income tax 企业所得税
 coupon给票/ 息票
 court costs 诉讼费用
 credit - 赊欠 / 贷款
 cross investment 相互投资
 current account  经常项目
 current asset = 流动资产
 current liability =  流动负债
 current payment 经常性支出
 customs bond 海关担保
 customs clearance 结关
 customs declaration 申报制度
 customs guarantee  海关担保
 customs valuation 海关估价
 customs value 海关完税价值
 cyclical swings 周期波动
 
 D
 
 debentures = 公司债 / 公司债券
 debt - 债务
 debt swaps 债务互换
 debtor-in-possession (DIP) 债务人持有资产
 debt-to-equity swap 债转股
 decision-making mechanism  决策机制
 decisively =  果断地
 deep-seated problems  根深蒂固的问题
 defendant (解决争端)被诉方
 deflation 通货紧缩
 depression  萧条
 desert = 放弃 / 遗弃
 desirable - 令人想要的
 determine - 决定
 dilapidated - 毁坏的,要塌似的
 dilution =  冲淡
 direct payment 直接支付
 dispute-settling mechanism  争端解决机制
 distribute - 分配
 distribution channels 销售渠道
 dividend =  红利
 
 E
 
 e-commerce / electronic commerce 电子商务
 economies of scale 规模经济
 emergence =  出现
 end up with结束于
 energy conservation  能源保护
 equitable and rational 公正合理
 escape clause  免责条款
 essence =  本质
 established facts 既成事实
 exchange rate mechanism  汇率机制
 exclusive right to purchase and sell 包购包销
 exclusive rights 专有权
 expansion =  扩大 / 膨胀
 export-oriented industry 出口创汇型产业
 
 F
 
 factor / factoring - 代管的债务
 file for bankruptcy =  那家商号自动破产者
 filing system 备案制度
 finance - 金融
 finance - 金融
 financial and budgetary provisions  财政及预算拨款
 financial consultant =  财务咨询
 financial instrument  金融工具
 financial systems, western - 西方金融制度
 findings (解决争端)调查结果
 fiscal year财政年度 / 会计年度
 fixed asset =  固定资产
 fixed overheads =  固定间接费用
 flagship product 龙头产品
 fluctuation -波动 / 起伏
 flying-by-night company; bogus company 皮包公司
 forced =  被迫的 / 强迫
 forms of ownership  所有制形式
 fortune - 财产
 franchise - 出售联营 / 经销权
 franchise licence -特许经营权
 freight forwarder 货运代理
 futures market 期货市场
 
 G
 
 generate - 产生
 generic products 非商标(非专利)产品
 get by -通过
 get the green light  获得批准
 government bonds =  政府公债
 government procurement 政府采购
 grant - 拨款
 guarantee money for deposits 存款保证金
 guaranteed stock 保息股票
 
 H
 
 haphazard investment 盲目投资
 hedge 套期保值
 high degree of autonomy 高度自治
 hold water 站得住脚
 holding company 控股公司
 holiday home - 度假时的住处
 horizontal merger 横向兼并
 
 I
 
 imagine - 想像
 implication =  暗示 / 含意
 implications �  后果
 import licensing 进口许可
 import surcharge 进口附加税
 in common -共同的
 in the doldrums 萧条时期
 income tax declaration 申报制度
 index / indices =  的股票指数
 industrial complex 工业生产基地/综合体
 industrial goods  工业产品
 inflate =  使膨胀 / 使通货膨胀
 inflation 通货膨胀
 initial public offering (IPO) 首次公开发行
 input-output analysis 投入产出分析
 institutional investors =  团体投资人
 intellectual property rights 知识产权
 intermediary service organization 中介服务组织
 intermediary -调解者 / 媒介物 / 中间的
 international bond market =  国际债券市场
 International Monetary Fund国际货币基金组织
 international transaction  国际交易
 intra =  内 / 内部
 investment in the fixed assets 固定资产投资
 IOU =  借据
 irredeemable =  不能挽回的
 
 J
 
 jointly and severally liable for 负连带责任
 
 K
 
 knock-out products 拳头产品
 
 L
 
 labor-intensive enterprises 劳动密集性企业
 landed cost 上岸成本
 lantern =  灯笼
 leaflet - 传单
 license fee 许可费
 liquid asset =  流动资产
 liquid investment短期投资
 liquidated Damages  违约赔偿金
 liquidity =偿债能力
 listed companies 上市公司
 loan establishment fee =  用于贷款的费用
 loan guarantees 贷款担保
 local content 当地含量
 lorry = 卡车
 loss reserve 赔款准备金
 lottery - 彩票
 lotto - lottery =  彩票
 
 M
 
 management buyout  买断产权或管理权
 management by objectives 目标管理
 mansion =大厦
 market access 市场准入
 market demand 市场需求
 market depressed 市场萧条
 market positioning  市场定位
 market segment 分块市场
 marketing budget 营销预算
 marketing savvy 营销知识/技能
 marketmaker = 市场商人
 markup pricing  加成定价
 mechanism -机构 / 结构
 memorandum - 备忘录
 memorandum of understanding (MOU)  谅解备忘录
 mergers and acquisitions 兼并与收购,并购
 mitigate risks 规避风险
 modern corporate system 现代企业制度
 money at call and short notice 短期放款
 money market 货币市场
 money squeeze 抽紧银根
 mortgage - 抵押
 multifunctionality (农业)多功能性
 multinational company 跨国公司
 
 N
 
 natural person (服务贸易)自然人
 net current assets = 流动资产净额
 newsagent - 卖 报纸
 non current liability =  非流动负债
 non-performing asset 不良资产
 
 O
 
 object � aim, target goal - 目标
 offset 抵免
 offshore market 离岸金融市场
 on-the-job training  岗位培训
 open-ended fund 开放式基金
 opportunity cost =  机会成本
 optimistic = 乐观的 / 乐观主义的
 ordinary revenue  经常性的财政收入
 organization - 组织
 ought � should - 应该
 over =  过量的 / 超过
 over capitalization =  资本额过多 / 股本定额过大
 over trading =  过量的买卖
 overdraft -透支
 overheads = 一般费用
 
 P
 
 paid-in investment 到位资金
 paperless transaction  无纸交易
 payments in arrears  拖欠的付款
 pence =  便士
 penetrate = 穿透 / 渗透 / 看穿
 pension fund = 养老基金 / 退休津贴基金
 personal earnings regulation tax 人收入调节税
 personal fortune -财产,财富,
 pilot projects 试点项目
 plug up loopholes 堵塞漏洞
 plumber -水管工人
 policy loan 保单贷款
 power of attorney 授权书
 preferential duties  特惠税
 pre-job training  就业前培训
 premium =  超出票面价值 / 支付特
 premium brands 优质品牌
 prime motivating force = 最主要者原动力
 principals - 主要的
 principle  原则 / 原理 / 主义
 production capacity 生产能力
 production gain  生产收益
 profit - 利润
 profiteer  倒爷
 promotion budget 促销预算
 proprietary brand 自主品牌
 psychological pressure =  心理上给你施加的
 publicly traded companies 公开上市交易的公司
 publish accounts - 公布会计帐目
 
 R
 
 ratio of current assets to fixed assets =  流动资产与固定资产比率
 ratio of current assets to total assets = 流动资产与总资产比率
 raw materials =  原料
 readily marketable products  适销对路的产品
 recession  衰退
 reciprocity and mutual benefit 互惠互利
 recognize - 承认
 reduce and cancel debts 减免债务
 regret =  遗憾 / 抱歉 / 惋惜
 relatively - 比较
 resources - 资源
 restructure = 更改结构
 restructuring of enterprise 企业改制
 return on equity 权益回报率
 return on investment  投资回报
 risk management/ assessment 风险管理/评估
 royalty fee  许可费
 run out - 耗尽,使...空竭
 run out of steam = 减速
 
 S
 
 sale in bulk 成批出售
 sales forecast 销售预测
 sales ledger 销货帐 / 销货客户分类帐
 sales promotion 促销
 sales quota 销售限额 / 销售定额
 sales representative / sales rep 商品经销代理 / 营业代表
 sales tax 营业税
 salvage value 残余价值
 sanctions 制裁
 scrip 股票 纸片sale by trade mark or brand 凭商标买卖
 seasonal = 依照季节的 / 周期性的
 seasonal price adjustments 季节性调价
 secondary market  二次级市场
 secured  把握 / 稳当性
 sector 段 / 分割 / 部门
 security - 保证
 security 抵押品/保证金
 self management 自主经营,自负盈亏
 sell at a price lower than the purchasing price 倒挂销售
 separate legal entity - 独立法定单位实体
 settlement of the balance 净差结算
 shed 脱
 shipping service company 船务公司
 signatory  签约方
 significant 有意义的 / 重要的
 slump 暴跌
 small profit by quick turnover 薄利多销
 small profit, large sale volume 薄利多销
 social security  社会保障
 soft landing  软着陆
 sole -唯一的
 solvency  偿付能力
 source 来源
 spare parts 备件
 special bonds 特种债券
 special campaign 专项活动
 specialty shop 专营商店
 specific - 特定的
 spin-off  脱离母公司的公司
 standardized marketing  无差异性营销
 start-up  新成立的企业
 statute law 成文法
 strip bad assets off 剥离不良资产
 subject to law - We are subject to the law of the land.- 我们须遵守当地的法律
 subscribe 捐献 / 签约从事
 subsidy - domestic  国内补贴
 
 T
 
 talent - 才能
 tax / taxation 税收监控
 tax concessions 税收减免
 tax exempt / tax examption 免税
 tax rebate  出口退税
 tax relief 税收减除 / 减轻税收员担
 tax, turnover tax营业税
 tended 有某种的倾向
 tender 标书
 tide over - 你能否借给我点儿钱, 帮我维持到发薪时?
 top priority  当务之急
 track record 过去的记录
 trading under license 许可制贸易
 trustee 委托人
 tumble 跌倒
 turn over 营业额
 turnkey projects 交钥匙工程
 turnover tax 营业税
 two-tier system  双重轨制
 
 U
 
 unconditional 无条件的 / 无限制的
 underwrite 承购包销
 unit cost 单位成本
 unmarketable goods 滞销货
 unqualified acceptance 无条件费兑
 unscheduled call 意外停靠
 unsecured creditor 无担保债权人
 unwanted goods 货不对路
 up to scratch -处于良好状态
 user-friendly 用户友好的 / 好用的
 utilities 含水电费
 utilization 利用
 utilize 利用
 
 V
 
 value added tax  增值税
 value 价值 / 价格 / 重要性 / 评价
 van -货车
 variable overheads 可变间接费
 vendor 厂商
 venture - 冒险
 venture capital 风险基金
 vertical merger 垂直兼并
 vested interest 既得权利
 volume 体积 / 大小
 voluntary liquidation 商号自动停业清算债务
 voucher 给票/ 息票
 vouch 担保
 
 W
 
 wages工资
 waiver 放弃 / 弃权
 Wall Street 华尔街
 warehouse 存入仓库 / 仓库
 warranty 保证
 warrant 保证 / 担保
 wasting asset损耗资产
 wear and tear损耗
 weighted average 加权平均值
 western financial systems  西方金融制度
 whim 一时的兴致 / 怪念头
 white goods 家用电器
 wholesale 批发
 widespread 广的 / 普遍的
 wind up 事业停止
 window dressing 不过是摆样子
 win-win situation 强强联手
 withholding tax 雇主替政府从职员薪金扣缴的所得税
 without prejudice 没偏见 / 不使受损害
 woe 不幸 / 困难
 word of mouth公开口头表达的
 working capital 营运资本
 write down减低面价值
 write off 帐面价值的削减 / 不再有任何价值的东西
 written down value  减去折旧的资产价值
 
 X
 
 x factor 未知因素
 
 Y
 
 year of assessment 财政年度 / 会计年度
 yield 生产量 / 投资收益
 
 Z
 
 zero rated 免税货物
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		| Brian Caulfield 
 
 
 Joined: 14 Sep 2004
 Posts: 1247
 Location: China
 
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				|  Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:16 pm    Post subject: |   |  
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				| I'm curious Spiderman , do you hold them responsible to understand the text in Chinese or English ? So you are more motivated teaching at double salary . Everytime I get subjects like this to teach is because no Chinese teacher wants to teach it . It's a trick a way to pass the buck or the students frustration unto the foreigner who will only be there for a short time anyway . You see I am dealing with very unhappy students now because the previous teacher who left was a very strict teacher who gave the students low marks because they too were not up to her standards . These audits schools go thru in China are a joke . They consist of much tea drinking and nights out at KTV . I met this lady once in Tayuan . She had a PHD in Economics from Harvard . She was giving lectures at some bank there . She gave three weekend lectures and then the bankers all would have MBA's .  Now she couldn't speak a word of Chinese and in Shanxi if you don't know Chinese there is no way you can use a bank . Now I wonder how much they really learned ? Well I guess it was Harvard's way of taking the money and running . Or the euphemism for running with other peoples money (financial management ).
 Lets face it this subject matter has nothing to do with someone being skilled in looking after money . People who look after money don't need to know English words they must be able to cut numbers .
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		| kev7161 
 
 
 Joined: 06 Feb 2004
 Posts: 5880
 Location: Suzhou, China
 
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				|  Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:43 pm    Post subject: |   |  
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				| I kind of agree with Spidey Too.  This is not a spoken/oral English class.  This is a business class taught in English.  There's nothing wrong with trying to simplify or explain the text in a different way in order for them to understand it better.  There's nothing wrong with having them read the text aloud and then correct their pronunciaiton of a word or phrase.  There's nothing wrong with verbally talking about passages in the text to encourage the students to use their English they've garnered in the past.  However, in my opinion mind you, in these classes, it's no longer your job to teach them rudimentary English skills.  Technically, that was to have been taught to them back in Junior or Senior middle school (and then expanded upon in their college English classes). 
 Now I'm not so cavalier as to say just teach them as you would a native English speaking student.  Not at all - - you will have to get creative on HOW you teach them.  However, as the semester progresses and you figure out some teaching strategies, some (many?) of your students should start to improve.  In 4 or 5 month's time, you can't get low level English speakers to be fluent, but you probably will see some improvement.  Also, many times spoken English skills are the lowest of the trifecta:  speaking/reading comprehension/written.  So, even if they don't speak much, does not necessarily mean all of them aren't grasping the basic ideas of the text or your presentations.
 
 My advice is to go over each unit before you present it and try to simplify it/summarize it to the best of your abilitities.  Have lots of in-class and out-of-class projects (whether they be individual assignments, pairs, or group work - - your decision) and let's these young adults surprise you.  Good luck!
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		| Roger 
 
 
 Joined: 19 Jan 2003
 Posts: 9138
 
 
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				|  Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:29 am    Post subject: |   |  
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	  | kev7161 wrote: |  
	  | I kind of agree with Spidey Too.  This is not a spoken/oral English class.  This is a business class taught in English.  There's nothing wrong with trying to simplify or explain the text in a different way in order for them to understand it better.  There's nothing wrong with having them read the text aloud and then correct their pronunciaiton of a word or phrase. |  
 I know you have learnt a lot on the job and changed your views and mindset over time - good on you!
 But the above statement has me puzzled!
 
 You know that a lot of Chinese parents expect their kids to go through English-medium schools (as evidenced in Hong Kong, and to a growing extent, on the mainland). Do these kids have the intellectual grasp to handle instruction in a second language?
 Most don't, yet their parents prevail, and as a consequence, teachers have to lower their levels and up the marks for the same mediocre performance of their students.
 The same can be said of English taught by FTs: it is a privilege for students to be admitted to such classes - from kindergartens to adult classes.
 
 This is tantamount to putting the horse to the rear of the wagon! The wagon will determine the speed and direction of the horse - not the other way around!
 
 It should be mandatory for Chinese students to pass a proficiency test given by an FT rather than one of those mock exams the CHinese hold.
 
 Only the truly acculturated should be admitted to business English classes or other classes where English is the working language.
 
 There should be NO TRANSLATION any more at the level where FTs are hired, full stop! If translations are needed then obviously the students haven't learnt enough, or their teaching wasn't geared towards the goal of making them independent of translation!
 
 If a teacher still has to identify new vocables for his or her students then something must be amiss! His or her students haven't learnt how to learn English on their own!
 
 Unfortunately, our employers are all nannies that still look after little grown-up children who need to be told which words are NEW, and despite learning new words, still need integral translations of English texts! Even at universities English textbooks are bilingual! What kind of thinking is presiding over this?
 
 I even disagree with the claim our students "understand things better" if these things are told them in Chinese; understanding is not automatically achieved through translations; you get a different word, a word in your first tongue, but do you understand the concept and word in question in your mother tongue? That's assuming too much!
 Look at the (far too long!) vocabulary list supplied by Spidey: are you so sure students need to memorise Chinese and English equivalents rather than gettting to grips with modern business practices including "pre-job training"? Surely if a student has been attentive enough in primary school he understands words such as "job" and "training", as well as the prefix "pre"; he ought to be able to piece the meaning of this neologism together on his own! This phrase is not a common word that we all use in our everyday conversations - it's rather jargon! That  means students must be familiar with the technicalities of the profession rather than the vocabulary as such!
 
 
 Besides, our English learners read aloud too much anyway - how many hours do they waste "practising" English without knowing how to pronounce the words under their nose? This is how they reinforce bad pronunciation, halting speech and faulty syntax and grammar!
 
 I also thought that Brian Caulfield's suggestions were the most helpful!
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		| vikdk 
 
 
 Joined: 25 Jun 2003
 Posts: 1676
 
 
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				|  Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:53 am    Post subject: |   |  
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				| 
 
	  | Quote: |  
	  | Do these kids have the intellectual grasp to handle instruction in a second language? |  
 Anybody with a decent knowledge of the English language should know that the word intellectual is very misplaced in the above sentence. Intellect is something that has to do with a persons capacity for learning - and is in fact a very out word in modern teaching circles - certainly when applied to a group and is also rather old fashioned when applied to the individual. Surely R is talking about the students "English ability" to understand the lesson - unless of course he's trying to say that the Chinese students as a group aren't very clever and don't have the ability to learn English.
 
 If that�s the case - my commiserations old chap
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		| kev7161 
 
 
 Joined: 06 Feb 2004
 Posts: 5880
 Location: Suzhou, China
 
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				|  Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:19 am    Post subject: |   |  
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				| Actually, Roger, I don't think I said the OP should translate, rather simplify if needed.  Should he HAVE to hold their hands?  No.  SHOULD he try to make this in-English class more accessible to the students ?.  If he can.  If I were to take that business course, I'd need some simplification as well as that is certainly not an area of my expertise.  As you all know, I teach 1st graders (who, granted, are more spongelike than older folk) and in the course of about 6-7 months, most of these kids can understand almost everything I say.  But it didn't always come easily - - and they're still growing by the way.
 
 IF I had to guess, (and it's really only an uneducated guess) I'd say that many of the OPs students can listen and comprehend to a ?? degree, but either don't want to talk or can't muster the courage or just simply haven't had enough practice in speaking English (perhaps they came from a middle school that didn't have the luxury of a foreign teacher).
 
 . . . just two more of my cents.
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		| 7969 
 
  
 Joined: 26 Mar 2003
 Posts: 5782
 Location: Coastal Guangdong
 
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				|  Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:50 am    Post subject: ...... |   |  
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	  | I still don�t understand what subject you have been asked to teach, but, anyway �. |  neither to i really. the school powers have not really told me what to do. just "use" this text. i would appreciate a set of goals, something to aim for. so far, i dont have that.
 
 
 
 
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	  | I thoroughly read each chapter before teaching it, highlight words that I feel the students will not understand, and I prepare explanations and analogies to use in class. I have also prepared a glossary of translations, which I have posted below and which may be useful with your subject. |  i foresee doing a LOT of this. i'm not familiar with all the vocabulary, much of it centred on commerce, organizational behaviour, trade, economics etc etc. thank you for that glossary that you pasted, i will try to make use of it.
 
 
 
 
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	  | I'm curious Spiderman , do you hold them responsible to understand the text in Chinese or English ? So you are more motivated teaching at double salary . Everytime I get subjects like this to teach is because no Chinese teacher wants to teach it . It's a trick a way to pass the buck or the students frustration unto the foreigner who will only be there for a short time anyway . |  frankly speaking, i think this is a subject that a chinese teacher who has experience/training in business/economics should be teaching. after all, this is an economics college. i wouldnt want an engineer trying to convey the politics of human rights to me if i was a student paying for the class.
 
 
 
 
	  | Quote: |  
	  | This is a business class taught in English. There's nothing wrong with trying to simplify or explain the text in a different way in order for them to understand it better. There's nothing wrong with having them read the text aloud and then correct their pronunciaiton of a word or phrase. There's nothing wrong with verbally talking about passages in the text to encourage the students to use their English they've garnered in the past. |  when i have read aloud sessions in class i hope for a certain amount of flow. i dont like to correct every single mistake. however, from my first impressions from one group so far, there wont be a lot of fluency here. it will be a lot of ums and ahs, and many other pauses in between the halting speaking/reading. this text will be very difficult for the whole class to read as one, there's just too many kids, and with different levels it will just be a lot of noise. the reading MAY go ok, however, there's not much in the way of exercises in the book (for support/reinforcement), and i really dont think i will be able to explain adequately what i think a teacher in this class should be able to explain. as noted before, this is not just an oral english class, its a specified area of the business world.
 
 i signed on at this school to do oral english at this school. thats what i can do more than adequately. however, i'm going to give this a try for a week, four different classes and see what happens. i'm not optimistic, and i'm being that way because i've been here long enough to know what to expect. if i'm wrong, i will come back on here and say so. in the meantime, i'm also going to try and find out why i have these classes and not someone who has more specialized training in this area, who may (or may not) do a better job.
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		| Spiderman Too 
 
 
 Joined: 15 Aug 2004
 Posts: 732
 Location: Caught in my own web
 
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				|  Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:05 pm    Post subject: |   |  
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				| Brian 
 The topic I teach is 1 of 12 subjects forming a British National Diploma course. All 12 subjects are taught in English; the text books contain no Chinese whatsoever. The external assessors are from the U.K. so I am not sure what sort of shenanigans they will yield to.
 
 I have spoken with each student in my class and learned that they aspire to; study overseas, secure local employment with an international company & secure employment overseas.
 
 It would be pointless for any student intending to get a local job with a local company wherein Chinese is the only mode of communication to study the subject I am teaching, or the subject taught by your PhD friend.
 
 
 
 
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	  | Also, many times spoken English skills are the lowest of the trifecta: speaking/reading comprehension/written. So, even if they don't speak much, does not necessarily mean all of them aren't grasping the basic ideas of the text or your presentations. |  
 The object of the students studying the subject I am teaching (referred to in the teacher�s manual as the target outcome) is not to improve their English speaking skills. It is for them to gain knowledge about international business practices and procedures. The subject is very intricate and there is simply no spare time for oral English practice.
 
 
 
 
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	  | If a teacher still has to identify new vocables for his or her students then something must be amiss! His or her students haven't learnt how to learn English on their own! |  
 I don�t think that I have ever read a bigger load of horsesh*t! Roger, as a native speaker of English, how many of the following words can you immediately, without reference to a dictionary, comprehend and explain to another;
 
 ademption
 bailiwick
 calderblank letter
 demurrage
 
 As a native speaker of English, as a master of the English language, you would probably get your first exposure to the above-listed words, and many, many more if you begin to study law.
 
 To imply that students, from China, Australia, the U.K., wherever, should be familiar with ALL of the words contained in my glossary BEFORE they can begin to study a subject such as Managing Financial Resources and Decisions indicates to me that, Roger, you have well and truly lost the plot!
 
 And, finally, 7969, your reference to an engineer is a good analogy. I can teach Managing Financial Resources and Decisions because of my education and work experience. But if my school said to me, �Hey, you�re a native English speaker so therefore you can teach this English only course in engineering!�, I would have no hesitation, and feel no guilt in telling the school, �No can do!�. I think that I am very competent at English but I ain�t no engineer!
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		| 7969 
 
  
 Joined: 26 Mar 2003
 Posts: 5782
 Location: Coastal Guangdong
 
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				|  Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:22 am    Post subject: ..... |   |  
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				| well, so far some good discussion here. 
 i have no problem using the text, i think i can adapt to it, and i think i can at least use it for 60/100 minutes each time i meet these kids. i think 100 minutes of this book at one sitting might be a bit much, but we will see.
 
 on a related note, i've asked the teacher who gave me this textbook (and my timetable) and the dean of our department, what the goal of these classes is. how much material should i cover in a class, is there going to be an exam at term's end, can i see the exam, can they give me any ideas? so far, absolutely zero support from these people. they've told me nothing. how can you instruct something if there's no clear goal in sight. i dont think you can, unless you're not worried about going off aimlessly..... i'm afraid the schools lack of assistance here is not going to help me and that will lead to me not being able to help the students, at least the ones that want to learn.
 
 i'm still wondering if i should just tell them to forget about it, i will only do oral english classes. any thoughts on this?
 
 7969
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		| kev7161 
 
 
 Joined: 06 Feb 2004
 Posts: 5880
 Location: Suzhou, China
 
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				|  Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:34 am    Post subject: |   |  
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				| What were you hired to do?  Does your contract specify the subjects you are to teach or is it more loosely worded such as teaching 18 hours a week?  My last contract specified I was to teach Oral English classes. |  |  
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