Job Discussion Forums

[Creso]

hi there, i'm sure these Q's has been asked before but my heads spinning from reading through all the posts!!

basically I'm a British citizen(irish resident), have a BA in History but have no other quailfications or teaching experience. I'm thinking hard about teaching in asia(china, taiwan, japan, korea) for a year, not intending to do it for longer than that, and hope to be able to head off in the autumn. monetary reward is not the primary reason for doing this more the cultural change( have travelled before to thailand and morocco but only for a few weeks each time, spent more time in newzealand but its not that culturally different from here!!)

Do you think that i need to invest in a tefl or some other qualification like a tkt? there seem to be so many opinions on this!! I feel reasonably confident i'd be able to do a good job through books and the internet, but then again i've never done anything like this before so who am i to say!

also if i go through a recruitment agency or one of the bigger companies like geos they seem to offer a couple of weeks aclimmatisation and training before the post starts, realistic?

what would people reccomend as a good way to find a position (I would realy prefer a rural area so arriving without a job seems to not be an option).

any help on this would be much appreciated, i know its all a bit vague sorry!
Thanks

[Glenski]

Training at the conversation schools in Japan is not what you might think. It's bare bones. But, that's mostly because the teaching is not the same as in a high school, and you are given a format to follow (strictly). Just remember that the period of training will probably have lower pay.

The best way to find jobs is to come here. If you can, this month is the prime time. After that it's spotty. You will also need US$4000 to support yourself for a couple of months while you job hunt and wait for your first paycheck.

If you can't afford to do that, you'll have to rely on the few places that recruit from abroad and sponsor work visas. You have to go with their interview schedules and locations, too, and pay your own expenses for attending interviews, sometimes lasting 3 days. There is also the JET program which hires only once a year. Deadline for applications for this year are long gone (Dec., 2005), so if you can wait, put in your application for 2007 by the end of this year. You'll interview in Feb (if you pass the first application stage), and if you are chosen, you'll fly here in August, 2007.

[stillnosheep]

Try JET if you can wait. If not try Aeon, Geos, ECC, Berlitz, Nova in about that order.

Celta definitely worth getting for th etraining and the observed teaching practice. Also for the confidence it gives you and the ability to evaluate whatever 'training' your employer may give you a little better.

[fluffyhamster]

If you're only intending to teach for a year at most, then reading up on the subject yourself (perhaps with a view to sitting the TKT) could give you the knowledge and confidence you need to make it through your first real classes; and this preparation will obviously still be very useful should you do decide at some point that you can in fact afford the time and expense it takes to do the CELTA.*

Personally though I'd say save your money (you'll then have something to put towards a Dip or MA if you start thinking of teaching as a more long-term career); that being said, it may be that bit harder to sell yourself long-distance (if you're wary of flying out without a work visa already secure and in your passport - there are obviously risks in not having one! - ready to present to immigration), without any experience let alone training whatsoever, so if you're the cautious type and can afford it, a CELTA might not be a bad idea (you might even get hired by the school at which you train - I did! - or be able to network your way to at least a part-time or temporary job more locally first).

It's obviously impossible to know if those of us who did the CELTA before our first major job would've been hired without it, but having it can't have hurt! I guess it ultimately depends on who you're applying to and perhaps how desperate they are for teachers. One thing I can say, though, is that having the CELTA doesn't seem to add that much if anything in terms of pay (but this is probably because even if you have one or its equivalent, then so will most of your colleagues...not that anyone without it will be earning much less, though, is all I'm saying).

Glenski and SNS have made some good points about training, it may not be of very high quality, but at least where it is offered by an employer you can get an idea of how you are expected to teach (no doubt handy if there are ever complaints from students despite you doing exactly as you were instructed to).

If you decide on China, make sure that you get the work visa stuff processed before you fly out. Don't believe it if an employer says they can get this done after you arrive (why not before?!) - you'll probably end up flying to Hong Kong or somewhere every month to get visa extensions to your business rather than proper work visa, and could well end up needing to leave your job (and the country) at short notice if immigration suddenly refuses to grant favours anymore (this happened to some people I knew in Shanghai a while ago). I'm not sure how visas work in Korea or Taiwan, but I got the impression you need to be careful in the former (the employer retains quite a bit of control over it/you can't change from a bad job as easily as elsewhere?), but I could be wrong. Japan's immigration is pretty straightforward (basically, all countries' are, if you do things by the book from the very start!).

So, if there's no mad rush to get over here, read up, perhaps get "qualified", apply for good deals such as JET, and don't be rushed into anything by any overkeen employers you might come across.

The 'CELTA without tears' article on englishdroid.com contains almost as many grains of truth as it does salt, and is worth reading just for amusement if nothing else; generally, I wouldn't say prepare to be disappointed overall with a CELTA course, but you may well be very uninspired, bored or even frustrated at times with what is often little more than a confirmation that if you put your mind to it, you can indeed work things out for yourself and prepare when need be.

But as a poster says on the following thread, why reinvent the wheel untrained (assuming you'd get halfway decent trainers)...though this does rather overlook the fact that even for trained teachers, often a large part of their work is precisely such reinvention (it'll always be needed to some degree, to help tailor things to meet individual needs), and even the CELTA can only cover a fraction.
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/teacher/viewtopic.php?t=4724

Basically, if you take the job seriously, you soon take an interest, learn to educate yourself, and in time can come up with solutions to most problems and needs.

*I'd recommend that you take a look at Lewis and Hill's Practical Techniques (LTP/Heinle) for immediate, well-written nuggets of pithy advice (especially on how a teacher might talk and phrase things), and one of Harmer's books (he has written quite a few) such as his How to Teach English or The Practice of ELT (Third Edition) (latter is probably the better long-term investment), to flesh out what Lewis and Hill say into more CELTA-like shape. Bear in mind, however, that asian students do not always respond predictably or well to communicative approaches, and that there is no such thing as an "average class". What ultimately matters is not how smooth a teacher is with the flashy techniques, but how prepared he or she is to engage with students, even the "problem" ones.

[coastal]

I have a degree and tefl cert and would like to travel to China as a tourist, travel around a bit, research jobs/ schools and then work short term for about 3 months � from around Sept to Nov 2006. I can sustain myself for a while if necessary and then I could make a decision about signing a 6 or 12 month contract - probably in 2007.

Can anyone tell me whether it would be legal to work short term as described? Would my employer have to assist with a different type of visa? Any advice welcome on how to approach this and how to work legally for a short period.

[acwilliams]

Coastal, post your query as a new thread on the China forum and you'll get more responses.

Visa requirements for a three month contract: see the visa sticky and many, many visa threads on the China forum.

Three months is short. You will find an employer willing to take you for this length of time, but they'll be desperate for teachers. Good employers are sometimes desperate, but bad employers are more desperate more often.

Also, with a three month contract you won't get the paid flights, long paid holidays or end-of-contract bonuses that many one-year teachers in China are entitled to.

[coastal]

Thanks ACW.
In the short term I can live without the benefits but regarding quality of employers I will try to find out which schools to approach on arrival.

[Creso]

Thanks for the help guys. Decided on southern China and to go without qualification, for good or bad! now just gotta go and find a place, thats the easy part right....!