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Help - No life and cultural sensitivities
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7969



Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong

PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 5:55 am    Post subject: ..... Reply with quote

the first thing i try to achieve in my class is some talking, talking about anything. once the students in china have the confidence to talk, one on one, or in front of the class, things become much easier.

i always tell my students at the outset, just talk. if you use chinglish, no problem, i can (usually) still understand you. we can fine tune and improve the english as we move along.

measurable improvement or not, if a student who was reluctant to speak in week 1, is speaking by week 5, 10 or 20, then progress has been made. this is china, i set the bar relatively low and if we exceed that in class, fine. if not, back to the drawing board next year.

7969
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Malsol



Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 1976
Location: Lanzhou

PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 5:57 am    Post subject: Maybe Reply with quote

Shocked

Last edited by Malsol on Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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vikdk



Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676

PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goals are always a sticky playing area for the teacher - shizer in the west with certain countries going back to the nice an'easy to understand "back to basics" regulations of national curricula, educational standard and school league tables - then those goals are made even murkier when the more difficult to understand concepts of modern pedagogy - such as personal developement, social education and the rights of respect with regard to an individual student's abilities and talents are thrown into this ugly politicaly charged pile!!! Teachers are pushed in a direction towards the political goal but know that methods will and should be questioned if the social and developmental elements of teaching are scrapped along the way.
With this in mind more and more teachers are turning the question about goal around 180 degrees and starting to concentrate on a whole other area - the goal of what kind of teacher do I want to be - because If you aint answered this question the chances are your views regarding the goals of your teaching, and what you are prepaired to do in the name of education, are going to be pretty confussed!!!
So with this more simplified goal in mind - and reflecting on the fact that the Chinese mainstream educational goal seems to be "make that student pass exams almost regardless of any consequences" - then I have drawn up a list of possible goals which any FT could aim for -

goal 1 - oramental white monkey - be an ornament who's only impact is to advertising a product (the English language) through appearance and cultural roots - the kids and the monkeys soon seem to get bored of each other.

goal 2 -obedient white monkey - the transition from ornament to a tool which can be operated through precise instruction, where teacher loyally follows the line of instruction - kids tend to hate these monkeys after a while - so boring - unless the instuction and backup for the monkey is of a high class (rarely the case in China)!

goal 3 - naughty white monkey - the FT who is dissalusioned and starting to rebel - but still tows line since employer and employee still have a use for one another - kinda OK with the kids, shows lots of VCD's lets the class entertain itself - monkeys and kids help each other pass the time.

goal 4 - innovative white monkey - those monkeys that can invent their own teaching "tricks" - these monkeys are often headstrong and sometimes bite - so some owners don't really like them - but there seems to be growing demand for them since the kids seem to love 'em and their new tricks on a longterm basis - can also be effective with regard to teaching the English language.

goal 5 - the loner white monkey - the monkey that doesn't want to be regarded as a monkey so tries to be a freelancing creature removed as much as possible from any local master (the person who does so much to remind then they are an ape) - the creature soon discovers that they can't entirely escape monkey status since this is a valuable selling point - but what the hell maybe this is a starting point on that long road to their own personal version of freedom and respect. Being a loner isn't any gaurantee that kids will like 'em or indeed if its classroom effective or has any good tricks - but some bosses like to bring them into their language zoo's since surving alone in the jungle seems to impart a certain quality over them. But this monkey has the ability to run at the slightest whiff of conflict - so their independance is usualy respected to a certain degree.

By the way most of these monkeys should be able to reach that goal teaching a student to say hello - but that of rocking traditional Chinese teaching methods by generating a full blown classroom discussion which both entertains and educationaly stimulates the student - well shouldn't that monkey show a few wild qualities that singles it out from the usual pets Laughing
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Henry_Cowell



Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley

PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dajiang wrote:
You shouldn't be too cynical Roger. I'm surprised that you, with your experience of many years, are so wary of 'discussion'. You seem be holding your students in quite low esteem?

Why so "surprised"? This is one of Roger's perennial complaints. He has stated here that he thinks speaking skills and writing skills are pretty much the same, so he prefers teaching writing. And he always has the lowest expectations of his students -- and their families and culture.

Nothing new here.
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sheeba



Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 1123

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Just talking their heads off isn't an educational goal! If their language doesn't improve measurably then it's been a waste of efforts and time!


I agree . I do sometimes wonder what the point in discussions in Chinese classrooms are . Debating is a good idea if you have the types of students that constructively and honsetly analyse their own and other students thoughts but is this happening ? Not where I am anyway .

My best debating classes have come from German teenagers . After that the Chinese debating sessions seem a waste of time.

I think a poster mentioned you need to set up discussions carefully and I think this is so true but an objective such as 'discuss x ' is just ridiculous.
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vikdk



Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
My best debating classes have come from German teenagers . After that the Chinese debating sessions seem a waste of time


And why do you think German kids are better - because they have been brought up in a society where open and constructive critical argumentation are the foundation for social progression - kinda comes to them naturally.

Quote:
I do sometimes wonder what the point in discussions in Chinese classrooms are


So sheeba when living in China - amid the pollution and grime (just to name a couple of minor irritations that also bug many of the locals) - and then thinking of environmentally aware Germany - and how the population has learnt to formulate in meaningful language their desires regarding their environment, so as to force change. You may come to the conclusion that some good has come out of training the German school population to discuss a subject - and while of course Germans can influence a situation through their democracy, something the Chinese aren't in such a strong position to do - you can, if given the chance, at least give your students a very modest experience in how to debate a subject instead of just letting things lie because there has never been a chance to speak up � of course a rather tiny gesture, but I think there is at least a seed of point there- and ya never know their could be little improvement in their English at the same time Laughing

By the way wonder if there were any FT's in the third reich or DDR - did they also think class discussions a waste of time Laughing [/quote]
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sheeba



Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 1123

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
if given the chance, at least give your students a very modest experience in how to debate a subject instead of just letting things lie because there has never been a chance to speak up � of course a rather tiny gesture, but I think there is at least a seed of point there-


Ok vikdk . I see a seed of a point too but the larger picture of what I am trying to do is improve my students' language skills . Most of these students won't even communicate with one another and sometimes I even get a refusal or a ' bu hui shuo yingyu!' Quite Ironic really !

I personally won't waste much time with debates as I don't feel it something really appropriate for my students needs. Before I leave this place I want to have at least have students feel a desire to continue their learning from where I left them . The different levels in class at my University really make the debate's a no no as I suspect must be the case in many universities . If they can't even communicate at a basic level (some of my students won't even look at each other in the face ) then I don't see a point to debates in this environment . I would rather initially work on the important job in hand in building confidence in the student's ability to converse with one another - to actually feel at ease using the language with one another . For me right now I feel communication games are working quite well . The kind of stuff the OP probably did with his younger classes . The kind of activities that have worked for me with 8 year old kids . Basic English language learning can be fun and I think that it also has a practical use . Not to say I'm doing it right but I will continue to work in this fashiion.
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vikdk



Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see your point sheeba - the practicalities of a situation sometimes make those finer nobler goals of education a tad difficult to achieve - but thebn again surely they shouldn't be completely scrapped - anyways what the hell!!! I work with kindy kids, hardly any hard hitting discussion going on with my students Laughing
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sheeba



Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 1123

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
the practicalities of a situation sometimes make those finer nobler goals of education a tad difficult to achieve - but thebn again surely they shouldn't be completely scrapped


not at all !! We have dreams as learning teachers too right ! Smile
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