Job Discussion Forums

[dustyboat]

Well i just wrote a massive note and my f****** computer decided to auto disconnect. So I'll be brief with this one;

My girlfriend and I are about to embark on a years teaching in China but as yet we do not know where. I am tied to EF and have put 'qingdao, nanjing, fuzhou and xiamen' as my preferred destinations. My girlfriend has an MA, a BA and has one more lesson to go to pass her CELTA and luckily she isn't tied to EF. Any info on EF schools in China(the places mentioned in particular) will be of great benefit as will any info on other reputable schools in these areas or other areas. You all seem happy to help the unknowing and I know nothing, so I look forward to hearing from you shortly. Tell me some of the good things and bad things about living in China not just teaching there....I'm ready for it!!!!

Cheers.

[Cobra]

It seems that what the mop head is trying to say is: what kind of a dumb jerk makes a major move without even the most basic knowledge?

But then we already know the answer to that one. It is the same kind of dumb jerk who is tied to EF.

[Gray000]

If you're not already here, let me suggest that you may want to reconsider being tied to EF. Really. I mean, really really.

What do you want from your stay in CHina? That will really determine what is a nice place or a hole.

You should probably go to wherever your GF's best job offer is and look around there.

[Hamish]

[Roger]

EF is the only chain school in China that I know to require its staff to be present at their offices or classrooms for a minimum of 40 hours a week, for essentially the same pay that others offer you for twenty hours a week!
Plus you have to wear a tie - imagine that in China's baking summers!

[Shaolin Monk]

Yes...I think their salaries are a joke!!!

[bluey]

When I first joined Dave's I was surprised that EF took such a beating. I taught at some Summer schools in the South of England, where EF is pretty highly regarded among teachers and students, for the comparatively high quality of lessons, good teacher support and strict standards, as well as better pay than their competitors. Can't say I ever taught there myself, though.

It seems whatever good reputation they may have stops well before China's borders. Lots of people - no doubt many with no first-hand knowledge of EF, and some with grudges to bear or whatever - are willing to lend a hand slagging them off. But inevitably the figures speak for themselves - 40 hours attendance for the same money as 20 hours contact elsewhere. It don't add up. I have seen other contracts demanding 40 hours attendance, but they tend to offer much higher salaries (12-16K).

One forum member with direct experience (I believe) has countered with a recommendation for EF, but the poster called them "a good first step" to teaching EFL in China, conceding that other employers do offer a better deal.

How are you "tied" to EF?
Can you break from them easily?
Why would you want to work for them in China, given their rotten deal and dodgy reputation?
Do you need that 1st step? Or can you do without it?

If you can break from them, you can choose your own destination and negotiate a better package. [echoes..]

Roger, as for having to wear a tie... I'll wear a tutu to work if someone offers me the right money. But no-one has, yet.

[Shaolin Monk]

Quote: as for having to wear a tie... I'll wear a tutu to work if someone offers me the right money. But no-one has, yet.

hmmmm can i watch?

[anujin]

my advice would be not to sign a year contract anywhere if you aren't already in china and know a lot about the company. you could get here and find it very different than what you expected and then a year seems like a long time....

[MyTurnNow]

I'll join the chorus here...if you can possibly get out of working for EF then you should strongly consider doing so. All of the chain schools suck, but EF may just be the worst of this list. Certainly among the worst.

If your qualifications are anything even close to like your girlfriend's then you should have no trouble finding good work just about anywhere in China you want to go- including all the cities you've mentioned. Take a good look at universities....if you search patiently you will find some decent salaries, and the consensus seems to be that you're likely to meet much better working conditions and a better educational program than any of the chains can offer.

MT

[dustyboat]

thanks for your words of wisdom, well some of your words of wisdom!
I am fully aware of EF's reputation, but I really don't have a choice. You see I only paid �150 for the 4 week course I just did, and taking a job with them afterwards was a condition on which this price was based. If I do not take a position with them I have to pay another �650 which is definitely impossible. As far as being a dumb jerk goes I was originally going to Indonesia to work, which I researched thoroughly and was fully aware of my options and prospects, so thanks for those kind words!!
Anyway we have established the fact that I have no option than to run with it, so anything positive to say would be appreciated. I am glad of the fact that my girlfiend is not as dumb a jerk as me, and she will be able to find work with other schools, so I ask you for your help with this part of our journey. One of you said I should concentrate on this and take an EF position in the place of her best offer. I take this on board and would appreciate any heplful recommendations you may have. We have settled for destinations on the east coast, but would consider other places if it will be of benefit.I have roughly six weeks til we go, and I need all the help I can get. Thanks again for your comments, well most of them. I look forward to more helpful info. Cheers

[Shaolin Monk]

(QUOTE:Anyway we have established the fact that I have no option than to run with it, so anything positive to say would be appreciated........)

Something positive?.....hmmm, well as for equality your girlfriend will now make much more than you for half the work!


(QUOTE:.....but I really don't have a choice. You see I only paid �150 for the 4 week course I just did, and taking a job with them afterwards was a condition on which this price was based....)

They shoulda paid YOU!!!!

not that I advocate this behaviour but make them breach the contract somehow or something....

[Cobra]

Please excuse the bad advice from our beloved brother Sunaru. You see he has recently been promoted from labor to management and he is still a newbie when it comes to the dodgy practices of management, but have no fear, he is a quick study.

He does not realize that they are holding something hostage much more dear than relatives. They are holding your certificate, for which you have paid both in money and time wasted, and it will only be released with additional money or additional time in involuntary servitude (slavery).

So the tie that binds is wrapped around your genetalia and if you do a runner you castrate yourself. OK, that understood, let's move on.

Here is the good news - you do not need that damn certificate to teach in China. Just chalk it up to education and move on. Get a decent job and your 150 will seem a small loss. That is right, write it off. Just put on your resume that you completed the course. No one will check, When asked about the certificate, tell the truth. You refused to work for them so they refused to provide it. That will elevate you in many a recruiters eyes far more than 1 year experience teaching at EF.

Look, you really must be careful what advice you take from a forum like this, but when the overwhelming opinions are against an organization, trust that we are not organized enough to constitute any conspiracy.

Do the runner but do it before you come to China, not after. That complicates things for you in China. Do not let EF even know where you have gone or that you are even going. Just cross them off. let them sue you for the balance due, if they can find you.

[Roger]

I do not quite go with those acerbic comments. If you have had to pay, then by all means come to China and join one of their outfits UNTIL YOU GET YOUR CERTIFICATE.
What you do after that is entirely up to you. It is worthwhile having a degree of some sort, and EF has branches in a lot of countries where they generate a lot less negative opinions, for instance in Indonesia. Your cert together with a favourable release letter will stand you in good stead anywhere, even in China!
Others have to pay 1000 to 2000 RMB/HK dollars, or US$ 150 and much, much more to obtain some cert or other, usually from an obscure organisation that collects its dues and throws those sheets of papers at its customers like paper aircraft.
I still maintain the presence time is inhumane, but I have not heard many bad reports about their working conditions. DOn't forget, EF China is a number of franchise takers, not the EF organisation itself. They are independent, though they have to use EF materials and the EF teaching techniques.

[Atlas]

I agree with Roger here, the voice of reason. Yes, you might find a better job faster; but in most cases, in any field, you start at the bottom.
Kid, that's life. Finish what you started and you'll find the rewards are greater than money. For instance, working hard makes you a better person, and in the long run, a better, more effective professional. The EF cert may be unnecessary for China, but you never know how it might pay off in the future, or where you may want to go. EF might take a lot for what they give you, but at least you know you can rely on the agreement.

If you want to be opportunistic, and do a runner, will that be your solution to every problem? Man, there are problems everywhere. I say be tough and positive and get what you set out for. You already chose EF, now stick to your guns. In a year, you'll kick ass. And maybe your girl makes more than you--but she'll respect you when you get what you aim for.

Best of luck to you!