Job Discussion Forums

[Glenski]

In the past 8 months or so, I have seen a huge rise in the number of postings on several discussion forums related to Japan with the subject that I have shown.

"No degree. Want to teach in Japan. Heard there were tons of jobs for anyone who just shows up." Or words to this effect.

I get the impression that somewhere in the world there is a source of information that says if you just show up in Japan, that it's dirt easy to find work teaching English. It sounds like the lifestyle of many people 30 years ago when they took backpack in hand to spend several months in Europe. The situation in Japan is NOT like this, and the bubble economy burst over 10 years ago. Qualifications for jobs are becoming stricter and stricter (in general).

My question is simple. I hope the answer is nearly the same, although I expect to get a variety of responses. Just who is giving this impression of easy-to-find work and streets paved with gold to people?

Second question is a little more personal. So many people wind up frustrated when they learn that their options with no degree are so limited. Why do they feel that way? Yeah, teaching English is not rocket science, but it does have its regulations at the immigration department, and if a school/company wants you to have a degree, why should a person complain? This situation is no different than finding a requirement at a company in one's home country. If you don't have it, you don't get the work, so you shouldn't complain.

I'm not complaining about the posts. realize that people are just looking for information. I just wish many had more forethought put into them, and I certainly wish more had done some basic research. I also wish people would list their nationality more often because they should realize that visa requirements differ from country to country. Mine should not be construed as a condescending post, but a sincere request for information.

[johnny123]

amen

[scot47]

It is worse when they start to argue back ! "Why do I have to have a dregree ? It isn't fair !" Strange that someone who wants to be a teacher cannot accept that, like in any sphere of human life, there are rules.

My other gripe is the questions form people that reveal an inability to differentiate between different countries. People who think "Abroad" is one place should not be allowed to go there !!!

[Irish]

[TokyoLiz]

I've met a lot of teachers with a wide variety of qualifications, from technical diplomas to law degrees to masters in the TESOL field.

When I started teaching, there were very few TESOL diploma programs available in my home city, and only a few of those were high quality. The growing competition for jobs in this industry has increased the need for professional development. Over the last 10 years, English teaching has grown up.

Certainly "teaching abroad" is a wonderful formative experience for young people, and I highly recommend it. Even if you're not intending to become a career teacher, you should do your research and invest in even short training in TESOL. You're doig yourself a disservice if you don't put some effort into learning teaching method.

And about rocket science, Glenski...Yeah, I have to admit, it isn't the hardest job in the world. But it requires a great deal of energy, planning and people skills.

[Welshy]

I agree that it's good to have an entry level requirement for TEFL and other jobs, but why only a degree and not a degree in English or TEFL or something similar?

My point is that the graduate with the degree in Mathematics and no TEFL will be able to teach, even though he/she may return to the west and do something with Maths degree, in a few years time. The person with a TEFL and a few years teaching experience but no degree, who has shown an obvious interest in teaching English and perhaps has other skills that would help him/her in the teaching world, isn't allowed to teach in places like Japan.

Before anyone says that, if he/she really wants to teach in Japan, he/she should go and get a degree. Shouldn't the Mathematician prove that he really wants to be an English teacher, by going out and getting a TEFL qualification?

Just a thought,

Welshy

[J.B. Clamence]

Welshy makes a good point, but I think there is a lot to be said for someone who has an education, with the specialty taking second place. It's true that just because you have no degree doesn't necessarily mean that you're not educated. So how do you determine if someone is educated? Well, you could get to know them, find out their ins and outs, intelligence level, knowledgability, etc. Unfortunately, for employers seeking teachers, that's simply not possible for lack of time. They have no choice but to use the "degree/no degree" acid test. That's just a fact of life, so it wasn't for nothing that our families and guidance counsellors encouraged us to no end about going to university.

Schools seeking teachers are usually looking to hire people who are educated, with "uneducated" trained and experienced teachers taking a back seat. Personally, I can't say that I entirely disagree with their logic.

[mc]

[Anda]

I'm one of the one's that heard about how easy it was to teach under the table back at the start of the nineties. I started into the game in Seoul in South Korea. Those days you could turn up with a black and white photocopy of a degree and get a job. It was a great time period. Despite all the changes and requirments I haven't seen any real average inprovement in the general standard of the average teacher here in Korea. I have my bits of paper these days but they did not make me into the teacher that I am today. Experiance and taking an interest in what you do is what counts along with liking the kids or people you teach.
The talk probally of the easy money probally comes from Korea and Taiwain and to a degree Japan from an earlier time from those that did it for a while but ended up back home with a job in the suburds.
To be frank most jobs here in the Hogwan trade (English Instutites) requires little in the way of education as the schools in the main want their foreign teachers to follow some stupid coarse book that any bright twelve year old could do. Most schools don't want a teacher to come up with a great teaching method as they think that it will create problems when the good teacher leaves and Mr/Miss average replaces them.
Like most Western countries education here in Korea is falling as each year the kids are testing poorer and have less interest in study. So if one is into actually wanting to teach then one will have a hard time. So what is the point of all this fuss on paper is it that having a piece of paper proves that you are not a free thinker and therefore unlikely to rock the boat.?

[Mark]

<<<<My question is simple. I hope the answer is nearly the same, although I expect to get a variety of responses. Just who is giving this impression of easy-to-find work and streets paved with gold to people?>>>>

I'm not sure, but it is something I've run into. I haven't gone abroad, but I've been teaching ESL in Canada and have run into those opinions. Sometimes, surprisingly, from within the industry. Just the other day, I had a receptionist at one of my schools ask me why I wasn't in Asia making gigantic piles of money. I mean, it's not like being able to live decently and save $10,000 a year is unheard of here in North America. Of course, it generally can't be done in domestic ESL work unless you run/own a school.

Part of it might be people's recollections from the past. I had a teacher recommend that I go to Japan based on his experiences of ten years ago. He was talking about charging $100 USD an hour for private lessons and whatnot, but he wasn't really aware of the current situation in Japan.

But, it's also spread by individuals. When I was finishing university I met more than a few people who'd gone to Korea or Japan and come back with ten or fifteen grand. They'd generally say they had a good time and earned a ton of money. At least in my experience.

<<<<Second question is a little more personal. So many people wind up frustrated when they learn that their options with no degree are so limited. Why do they feel that way? Yeah, teaching English is not rocket science, but it does have its regulations at the immigration department, and if a school/company wants you to have a degree, why should a person complain? This situation is no different than finding a requirement at a company in one's home country. If you don't have it, you don't get the work, so you shouldn't complain.>>>>

This is probably because the average person hasn't given any thought as to what's involved in teaching a language. Let's face it, we're not a continent of polyglots over here, and English speakers in general tend to be a fairly unilingual bunch.

I have a friend who in all seriousness said that he might like teaching English, he figured it involved chatting with people and telling them slang. I guess sort of like that scene in Born In East L.A., if anyone remembers that.

So, yeah, I guess that's basically it. Some people have the idea that Japanese will pay huge amounts of money to chat with a foreigner.

The simplest response might be to say: "Because you can't, that's why" and then move along.

Cheers.

[gerard]

To the poster Glenski---I think what it comes down to is that people at home do not view a general BA as something valuable. They think of it as a pre-law or pre-med thing at best but usually they think it is people killing time while they decide what they want to do. I know I spent 4 years trying to explain to people I was doing a BA and NOTHING ELSE.Also I guess because it does not automatically put you in demand at home people dismiss it... I hear you though-I worked p/t with an agent here last year and was bombed with people wanting to know why schools wouldn't fly them here to work...They have read a few books and worked here and there and hey they are as smart as anyone with a BA......My advice was---go to University (on a loan even) and have the best 4 years of your life and then think about ESL. God forbid you might even learn something.........

[stevo]

One reason some may find frustration with the 'need for a degree' is because the ability to teach English 'with any degree' and then TEFL, seems to scream it doesn't matter what you know. The implication, of course, is that you know something, and hopefully something about education, from having gone through the education process.

I don't think 'anyone' can teach English, maybe they could, but some would maybe be inclined to think they would like it without really considering what its all about (as with anything else, I'm sure any ESL teacher couldn't deny having meandered in their path to finding what they want) and be tempted to get into it on little pretext, and the degree qualification may act as a buffer for that, for schools especially.

But one can teach without a degree, I did it in Spain for quite a while teaching to individuals. I don't know what others think about teaching freelance from advertisements, but it worked great for me. I didn't make much money, it wasn't steady, and I wasn't legal; but I got to live where I wanted and had a great time. Nothing wrong with that, right?

[Welshy]

Welshy here again,

I don't mean to single out Japan again, but I've just come off the phone to the Japanese Embassy and they told me that if a Japanese school of English wants to take someone with a good level of education but no degree, it is at their disgression. They don't have to take teachers with degrees. I don't know whether this information is true, but it comes straight from the horses mouth, so to speak.

I've recently met a teacher who applied for a job in Thailand. Some reputable schools there take teachers with no degree. He told me that, even though he has a good standard of education, a Diploma in TEFL and five years of experience, but no degree, he failed to get a job at a certain language school. His friend however, fresh from University and holding a Degree in Environmental Pollution, applied for the same job and guess what? He was successful. His friend had not so much as a CELTA and has never been in a classroom in his life.

I agree that a degree is a good standard of education, but having worked with graduates, it certainly doesn't mean they are better teachers. So many excellent, well-educated, non-graduates are slipping through the net. I think that schools should look at each CV on merit. Not every country requires teachers to have a degree for visa purposes. So I say let's stop being so stuffy and give well-educated, career-minded, Diploma in TEFL, non-degree holders a chance.

Just a thought.

Welshy

[Glenski]

Welshy,

While I admit that there may be people without degrees who are fully capable (and as you pointed out, perhaps even trained) in teaching EFL/ESL, your statements repeat what I wrote as my second question way back in the original post.

The basic question goes like this: "Gee, why can't I get more respect than someone who has a degree?"

Yes, it's absolutely true that employers can choose to hire anyone they like, with or without degrees, but immigration demands certain rules and regulations to be followed. So, if an applicant doesn't have a degree, and he is from the USA, for example, he can't get a work visa. If he also does not qualify for a spouse visa, dependent visa, or student/cultural visa, then that American is out of luck legally. Should the employer ignore the law and hire him anyway, both parties are in violation and have to suffer any consequences. Neither one should complain if he is caught.

If an applicant DOES qualify for the other visas (or even for the working holiday visa), then it is ENTIRELY up to the employer to hire that person or a degreed one to work legally. But the odds are that employers will choose the degreed person.

I say again, if you don't have the degree (and now I will add, and if you don't match visa requirements), don't complain. It's the law you are facing, and you can't fight it. Just imagine someone trying to do a similar thing in your home country. No sympathy there either.

[bnix]

So,basically,you want something for nothing?That is the way it sounds.What makes you think you can teach English with no qualifications,even if you can speak English? This "profession" unfortunately attracts a motley crew(VERY motley) of unemployables,ex-convicts,fugitives from justice,fugitives from unhappy love affairs,people "looking to find themselves",etc,etc.And relatively few professionals,unfortunately.

If you really want to teach English(and not just "take the easy way out" and fool around),I suggest you get some qualifications,at least a four year degree."Gimmee" indeed!!