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katie19
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 4
Location: boulder, co
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 Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 5:34 pm Post subject: Is it legal to live together if you're not married? |
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Hi everyone,
I've read that in places like Vietnam, it is illegal for everyone, including foreigners, to live together if they're not married. Is the same true of Taiwan? And on the subject of living...what's the best way to go about getting an apartment? What are leases like and are utilities included in rent? Please help! Thank you! |
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markholmes
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 661
Location: Wengehua
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| Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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No it is not illegal to live together in Taiwan. Taiwan is a democratic country. The government's control does not extend past your front door (well, no more than in a western country anyway).
I don't know about Vietnam, but I lived in an apartment with my girlfriend in south west China. Whilst it was illegal, because we were both foreigner, it was tolerated. |
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TaoyuanSteve
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 1028
Location: Taoyuan
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:16 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| The government's control does not extend past your front door (well, no more than in a western country anyway). |
Don't be so sure, Holmes. While this likely won't apply to the OP--unless she wants to shack up with married Taiwanese, that is-- issues like extramarital relations are criminal offences here, punishable by prison terms. A couple of foreigners living together is no issue; that's true. There's nothing illegal about cohabitation (that I know of). However, it is incorrect to say that the goverment's control on one's private life is no different here than in a western country. Another shockingly antiquated law is the one that states a woman cannot live anywhere but her husband's house without his permission. So, if a woman is having problems with her marriage and moves back to mom and dad's suddenly, she's breaking the law. Weird. I found out a lot of this from a friend going through a divorce from a local woman. Taiwan may be a democracy, but it is still not a fully developed country, especially where its laws are concerned.
As for apartments , many just get assistance from their employers here. Typically assistance from an English speaking local is a good idea for newly arrived people to find a place. Also, the local expat hangouts often have places for rent in English on their bulletin boards. Leases are much like western countries, with one or two months deposit needed. Luckily no rip-off key money as in Korea and Japan. Utilities usually aren't included, unless you are renting a room in someone else's place. |
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markholmes
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 661
Location: Wengehua
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:47 am Post subject: |
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I stand corrected, although I do know an unmarried Taiwanese and foreigner living together and it doesn't seem to be a problem.
Perhaps it's all hush hush |
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TaoyuanSteve
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 1028
Location: Taoyuan
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:05 am Post subject: |
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| markholmes wrote: |
I stand corrected, although I do know an unmarried Taiwanese and foreigner living together and it doesn't seem to be a problem.
Perhaps it's all hush hush |
Unmarried wouldn't be a problem (as far as I know, at any rate). Cohabitation or sexual relations with a married person could be, depending on what the cuckholded spouse wanted to do about it. It's kind of irrelevent, I know, for a foreign cohabitating couple. I guess the only thing I latched onto was the statement about Taiwan's democracy and it's government's control on individuals being supposedly no different than in the west. Though the average foreign teacher will enjoy a life, during their stay here, with freedoms much like what they enjoy at home, there are still some backward laws that may or may not affect him/her, depending on the nature of one's life and relationships here.
However, the essence of your initial reply is correct, Holmes. I'm just bored on a rainy morning here in Taiwan. A foreign couple living together is no big deal. I've been doing that since I got here. |
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SanChong
Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 5:21 am Post subject: |
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Unmarried wouldn't be a problem (as far as I know, at any rate). Cohabitation or sexual relations with a married person could be, depending on what the cuckholded spouse wanted to do about it. It's kind of irrelevent, I know, for a foreign cohabitating couple. I guess the only thing I latched onto was the statement about Taiwan's democracy and it's government's control on individuals being supposedly no different than in the west. Though the average foreign teacher will enjoy a life, during their stay here, with freedoms much like what they enjoy at home, there are still some backward laws that may or may not affect him/her, depending on the nature of one's life and relationships here.
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When have you ever heard of a law in Taiwan affecting a foreigner in the way you are suggesting is possible? I've never heard of any limitations of personal liberties in Taiwan the way you are implying. There aren't any more silly laws here than there are in our home countries (aside from some of the laws surrounding English teaching, which can certainly use some improvements). |
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markholmes
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 661
Location: Wengehua
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 5:22 am Post subject: |
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| You should have been in Vancouver. Not a cloud in the sky today. |
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TaoyuanSteve
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 1028
Location: Taoyuan
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 5:36 am Post subject: |
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| SanChong wrote: |
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Unmarried wouldn't be a problem (as far as I know, at any rate). Cohabitation or sexual relations with a married person could be, depending on what the cuckholded spouse wanted to do about it. It's kind of irrelevent, I know, for a foreign cohabitating couple. I guess the only thing I latched onto was the statement about Taiwan's democracy and it's government's control on individuals being supposedly no different than in the west. Though the average foreign teacher will enjoy a life, during their stay here, with freedoms much like what they enjoy at home, there are still some backward laws that may or may not affect him/her, depending on the nature of one's life and relationships here.
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When have you ever heard of a law in Taiwan affecting a foreigner in the way you are suggesting is possible? I've never heard of any limitations of personal liberties in Taiwan the way you are implying. There aren't any more silly laws here than there are in our home countries (aside from some of the laws surrounding English teaching, which can certainly use some improvements). |
I didn't merely "hear" about it. It is something that affects one of my closer friends currently here in his divorce from a local. He woke up one night to find a gang of thugs in his house trying to gather "evidence" of his infidelity (he is separated but not yet formally divorced). If they had got what they were looking for, he would have been up the creek. SanChong, if you do not know for sure what you are talking about, do not come on here accusing others of not knowing. I'm not writing tinfoil hat stuff here, but conditions that actually exist. The laws concerning adultery here exist and are real, as are the laws dealing with wives residing outside their marriage home.
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| You should have been in Vancouver. |
You're making me homesick. |
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SanChong
Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 5:54 am Post subject: |
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What does a gang of thugs have to do with the government? Do people not beat people up back in the States?
As I recall, many States back in the US have recently made sodomy illegal by referendum. They have been talking about legalizing Gay marriage in Taiwan. I'm not seeing any severe restriction of our rights here.
Have you ever known someone to get divorced in the States? If a man isn't faithful in the States, he can get nailed to the wall as far as alimony, child support, distribution of assets, etc.
Your original reads very critically of Taiwan. Please give some concrete examples if you are going to deride Taiwan as such a non-progressive country. Has anyone actually ever been sent to jail here for adultery? I've never heard of it, yet you mention it as though it happens regularly.
Last edited by SanChong on Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:35 am; edited 3 times in total |
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TaoyuanSteve
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 1028
Location: Taoyuan
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:18 am Post subject: |
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| SanChong wrote: |
What does a gang of thugs have to do with the government? Do people not beat people up back in the States?
As I recall, many States back in the US have recently made sodomy illegal by referendum. They have been talking about legalizing Gay marriage in Taiwan. I'm not seeing any severe restriction of our rights here.
Have you ever known someone to get divorced in the States? If a man isn't faithful in the States, he can get nailed to the wall as far as alimony, child support, distribution of assets, etc.
Your original reads very critically of Taiwan. Please give some concrete examples if you are going to deride Taiwan as such a non-progressive country. Has anyone actually ever been sent to jail here for adultry? I've never heard of it, yet you mention it as though it happens regularly. |
 The people were gathering evidence to make a complaint with the police in order to press charges. They were trying to gather enough evidence for a prosecution. Do you have any idea how things work here such cases? You seem to be totally ignorant of the laws here and how they work.
Relevent discussion of the existence of this law:
http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?t=46588&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=10
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And another advice - I am not judging about the morality of this:
If you do anything then do it on the sly. No need for her husband to find out. Remember that extra-marital sex is punishable by prison here |
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SanChong
Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:27 am Post subject: |
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Are you seriously submitting that link as evidence? What evidence do you see in that link?
I don't know if it's "technically" illegal to have extra-marital sex here or not. I DO know that adultery is STILL technically illegal and technically punishable by jailtime back in our country, THE UNITED STATES. Have you heard of anyone going to jail for adultery in the States? No, I thought not.
I've never heard of anyone in Taiwan going to jail for adultery either. Until you show us a real life example of it actually happening, I'm going to assume it HASN'T. I read the paper everyday and I've never heard or seen of this law before.
My point was to refute your original post which clearly made Taiwan seem backward compared to Western countries. I disagree with that and think it's an unfair impression to give to foreigners considering a move to Taiwan. It also wasn't really relevent to the original posters question (although you answered that find later on, of course it's fine to live with your partner here in Taiwan) You have offered no concrete evidence of your contentions about jail time for adultery other than a story and an entertaining link (thanks for that though!). |
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TaoyuanSteve
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 1028
Location: Taoyuan
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:41 am Post subject: |
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| SanChong wrote: |
Are you seriously submitting that link as evidence? What evidence do you see in that link?
I don't know if it's "technically" illegal to have extra-marital sex here or not. I DO know that adultry is STILL technically illegal and technically punishable by jailtime back in our country, THE UNITED STATES. Have you heard of anyone going to jail for adultry in the States? No, I thought not.
I've never heard of anyone in Taiwan going to jail for adultry either. Until you show us a real life example of it actually happening, I'm going to assume it HASN'T. I read the paper everyday and I've never heard or seen of this law before.
My point was to refute your original post which clearly made Taiwan seem backward compared to Western countries. I disagree with that and think it's an unfair impression to give to foreigners considering a move to Taiwan. It also wasn't really relevent to the original posters question (although you answered that find later on, of course it's fine to live with your partner here in Taiwan) You have offered no concrete evidence of your contentions about jail time for adultry other than a story and an entertaining link (thanks for that though!). |
The laws exist and they have been applied against myfriend and he has been advised by lawyers on how to apply them againsthis ex spouse.
| Quote: |
| My point was to refute your original post which clearly made Taiwan seem backward compared to Western countries. |
Sorry to burst your bubble, but this isn't the USA. If laws that say women aren't allowed to live outside their marriage home exist, then maybe Taiwan is backward. You make your own assumptions.
As for making Taiwan appear one way or the other, give me a break. If you want to believe that Taiwan is a utopia, go for it.
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| You have offered no concrete evidence of your contentions about jail time for adultry other than a story and an entertaining link |
You haven't even offered as much in your stubborn assumption that such laws do not exist.
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| I don't know if it's "technically" illegal to have extra-marital sex here or not. |
It is. People don't often go to jail on it because the burden of proof is substantial. You more or less have to capture the couple in the act.
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| It also wasn't really relevent to the original posters question |
I made my comments in response to one respondent who wrote to the effect that there are no laws that interfere in the lives of individuals that do not exist in western countries. My reponse was to illustrate how that belief was incorrect. The laws here have some signifigant differences. The average teacher (yourself included) will likely not encounter them. That doesn't mean these differences do not exist. Taiwan probably has some of the mst liberal laws in Asia, but it is not a western developed nation. Not by a long shot. |
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SanChong
Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:50 am Post subject: |
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Ok, the point still remains: No one has gone to jail for adultery here.
So, it's a little disingenuous to present that as a real possibility.
That was your original point in claiming that Taiwan is not as advanced as Western countries.
We'll just have to agree to disagree  |
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TaoyuanSteve
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 1028
Location: Taoyuan
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| SanChong wrote: |
Ok, the point still remains: No one has gone to jail for adultery here.
So, it's a little disingenuous to present that as a real possibility.
That was your original point in claiming that Taiwan is not as advanced as Western countries.
We'll just have to agree to disagree |
Wrong on both accounts. There is a very real risk of going to jail for it. It's a crime here.
And whether Taiwan is or isn't as advanced as western nations hasn't been my point in all this, so lay off the defend Taiwan crusade. |
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SanChong
Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:13 am Post subject: |
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I'm not sure if you are ignoring my points, but you are just repeating your same mantra over and over again without actually saying anyything.
Steve said:
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| There is a very real risk of going to jail for it. It's a crime here. |
Really? Then it must happen sometimes, right? Show me even ONE EXAMPLE of someone going to jail for adultery here. If you can't do that, then it must not be a real risk.
As I've said, it's illegal in a lot of States in the US also. Is going to jail for adultery a real risk there? It's a law, so it must be according to you. The real world (as we all know) is very different.
You are making a very silly argument here.
Defending Taiwan is EXACTLY the point. The poster asked if it was ok to live with a partner in Taiwan. You proceeded to go off on a "Taiwan is not a developed country" tangent.
That could be a topic for another thread, however you brought it up here. I disagree strongly with you on this. |
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