Job Discussion Forums

[mli_vet]

[scot47]

"Normal" is what they do in Des Moines, Iowa. The further you are from that the more deviant you are.

Sometimes I wonder what happened to MLI-vet when he was in Saudi. Too much sidiki ?

[nighthawk]

Roger wrote:

[nomadder]

I don't think all other cultures accept and like everything about western culture. Many (but not all) like the money, things and supposed glamor but there are other things they don't like. Mexicans often talk about the terrible family structures of their northern neighbors. They can't understand why families don't live together until the offspring get married for example. I'm not sure about today but the Chinese used to call us derogatory names and think our culture beneath theirs. Many Muslim women prefer the freedom of their loose clothes and covered heads or faces.

I'd like to have more access to foreign books and movies to have more insight to what they do think as well as learning other languages. The truth is we don't have the information to know what they think and the terrorist attacks that we've witnessed lately are extreme examples of the dislike of western ways.

[arioch36]

Just read this thread. On the original note, I have found that the Chinese I know have no real interest in American culture, and have no sense of responsibility to adapt, whether something as simple as not spitting food on the dinner table (after being here for years) putting garbage in a plastic bag in the garbage can, rather then throwing it wherever they want,
learning how to drive properly (by western notions) rather then just cutting in front, etc.

I've taught about 12 Chinese and a Korean to drive. Maybe one or two had any patience about learning common courtesy or basic safety while driving. Just, "I want to pass, I don't care about anyone else"

I have many, many Chinese friends (and some other nationalities) back in the US, mostly college students. I have rented my house to many. The students are very accepting of any western culture that increases their material wealth, or allows them to do things they want to do, without taking responsibiltiy for it, that gives them pleasure.

Other then that , they have no inclination to adapt to American culture, and complain when they are forced to. Now, I like my Chinese friends, but the East Asians seem to be the worst. They (a majorityt) shop at Asian foodstores, hang out only with fellow Chinese/Taiwanese/Japanese students, and don't care less about doing things in American way, or understanding American culture.

I learned to play Chinese cards. Play with many Chinese friends in US and China. Have yet to have one Chinese friend (out of hundreds) willing to learn an American card game.

They say America is more dangerous, but leave the door to my house they rent unlocked. I ask...would you do this in China..they say no, never. So what they say, because of what they have always been taught, can be quite diffferent from their actions. China is still supposedly a much better country, but none of them wants to return.

So I really have not seen that foreign countries are more tolerant, or willing to adjust. Just the opposite.

It's a weel known fact (just kidding, I hate people saying that)

I have many personal stories of how Chinese go to America or Canada and their English becomes worse and worse

PS I do have many Chinese friends in US and China, but i don't think I would want to teach Chinese students in the US once they have been here for six months. The ,"I want to learn attitude" is often replaced by gimmee gimmee, that's too hard, I don't want to work hard Me Me Me

[spatrick]

Having lived the majority of my adult life outside of my home culture, I�d like to say that my sole axiom for understanding cultures is that whatever exists in that culture is accurate and right inasmuch as I am not of that culture and cannot, I believe, ever understand the rationale for that cultural act. I certainly cannot say that something is more �logical� or �rational� in one culture or another. To make any such statement would be like telling someone that they MUST like strawberry ice cream, or beer mixed with coke. That�s absurd � one likes what one likes. Why one likes strawberries or not is not a point which logic can touch, nor intimate.

The converse of this is also true. Whatever one does when one�s inside of his-her culture, acting as s/he would be as a member of that culture, is culturally correct. If, for example, one decides to eat the family pet (which happens in the US), or drive on the wrong side of the road (which is common in several countries I�ve lived in), then, these acts must be understood as being viable acts of and in that culture. Judging these acts is patently absurd.

Whether or not one prefers aspects of a culture is a completely different question (I personally dislike strawberries which has made more than a few people think me odd). Further, what a culture �tolerates� or not shouldn�t be a remark made by professionals whose choice is to tolerate whatever the culture brings them. If one finds the culture distasteful, leave. Or get another type of job � perhaps as a Wonderbread salesperson in a small town in Iowa.

Patrick

[Capergirl]

@Roger and Nighthawk...I do think you raise some good points. My original post was a generalization - I do not dispute that fact at all. However, I stand by my post as it is my opinion based on my own experiences (which are clearly not as vast as many of the others on this forum, as I have only lived in four countries and visited a handful of others). I believe that we all generalize about issues and we all have viewpoints that stem from our own (very different) experiences. As one has more experiences in this life, one's viewpoint changes. I'm interested in reading all of the various viewpoints on this forum because you have all had very different experiences that have shaped who you are and how you think about such issues. It really is fascinating. Perhaps in 5 or 10 or 20 years from now, my views on this topic will be very different. Who knows?

[khmerhit]

spatrick asserted

Quote:

If, for example, one decides to eat the family pet (which happens in the US), or drive on the wrong side of the road (which is common in several countries I�ve lived in),

Perhaps we should split this thread and initiate one called Eating the Family Pet and Other American Traditions..../?

[Capergirl]

What kind of family pet are we talking about here? Dog? Cat? Guinea pig? Budgie???

[spatrick]

I thought that comment might raise some questions --

I�ve seen and heard of USers eating pet pigs -- get them while they�re little and when they are nice and big, the family eats it (the one case I saw was on a small farm in FL where they were on their fourth "sammy," the name of the pig.) The pig really was a pet -- slept on the bed and all.

I have also witnessed families who feed deer, name them, pet them, and then when hunting season begins call the little fellers over and shoot them. Macabre if you ask me, but a culture is a culture.

Best,

Patrick

[arioch36]

My korean friends celebrated New Year by taking a cruise ship off the New York City coast , and having a weenie roast, eating dog all night. Of course, on the opposite side of the world Americans go to the PAcific and have a similar party eating pig.

Hopefully no family pets allowed

[Dr.J]

I'd like to say to some of the posters here, watch out for 'cultural relativism'.

It seems like a good point of view to say: "No culture* is right or wrong, they are just different. Saying one culture is better than another is like saying ice cream is better than cake."

But, this is just wrong.

In the end, people all share similar basic values and similar morality. For instance, causing unnecessary pain and suffering is just wrong. And when one culture allows more or less of these basic values to be upheld, it is a better or worse culture.

Now I'm not in a position to say WHICH cultures are better or worse, whether 'Asian social cohesion' works better than 'Western freedom', but crikey, people, we're not THAT different.


*I concede culture is hard to define; I mean something like 'accepted beliefs and practices'.

[johnyarrington]

Dear Dr. J,

I disagree. Some cultures may not be "better" than others, but I've found certain people from certain cultures WAY different than me. Way different. They think differently, they value different things in different ways, and they do things in a way different way because they have certain basic assumptions about life, about morality, about ethics, and about human nature that I just don't hold to be true. Fanaticism in religion is just one example. Business is another, although we can usually agree enough on this to at least open the door to do it together. It's not even about "mutual benefit". A lot of people have very, very different reasons for doing business with each other, than I do.

[Dr.J]

Interesting answer. Let's not start off on opposing sides (a very western thing to do) just for the sake of it.

You're right, there are very different cultures. But I'm talking about a level deeper than those you suggested. For instance, all cultures value life over death, pleasure over pain, and the importance of family, friends, and beauty.

"The (insert nationality) aren't better or worse, just different." is no excuse when it comes to important human values.

[leeroy]

Dr. J - I hear you loud and clear.

Let me pick a nationality at random here.... Indians.

Have you seen how the majority of Indians drive? (In India, I mean). They do it without regard for safety or value for human life. From reading teachers' complaints about other countries on this forum, I have a feeling India isn't the only one.

The caste system isn't too nice either.

Would you use this as a reason to 'cast' Indian culture as inferior, though, or put it down to cultural difference?