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Solutions for the lonely Gaijin
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PAULH

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan

Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:07 am Post subject:

angrysoba wrote:

Anyway, please do show the link.

Okayama International Villas

http://www.harenet.ne.jp/villa/

PS dont worry about me, Im just yanking your chain. Nothing personal.

PAULH

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan

Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:08 am Post subject:

Jazz1975 wrote:

It depends. If I clearly cannot speak the language, I have no problem "proving" I'm not Japanese. But my gaijin card is just that: Mine. And I don't feel like I need to show it to others to justify myself.

Jazz, I havent met you but people will tell pretty quickly you are not Japanese, even before you get a chance to whip out your gaijin card. All you have to do is open your mouth and speak English to the barman.

Jazz1975

Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 301
Location: Zama, Kanagawa

Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:10 am Post subject:

PAULH wrote:

Hahahahhahhaha...that's too funny. And true too. Laughing

angrysoba

Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 446
Location: Kansai, Japan

Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:10 am Post subject:

PAULH wrote:

angrysoba wrote:

The point is that bar prices shouldn't discriminate against Japanese. It also discriminates against other Asians who live in Japan and look Japanese. Do they have to prove their nationality by showing their gaijin card?

What if you are like Debito Arudo who has to show his passport to prove he's not a gaijin foreign national?

Is it so bad for an Asian American to have to prove they are not Japanese?

I think you miss the point, Debito Arudo has to show his passport to show he is a Japanese national in the same instances that an Asian-looking Japanese has to. For example, going through customs. No one is exempt from this.

Jazz1975

Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 301
Location: Zama, Kanagawa

Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:16 am Post subject:

Okay, fine. I will show my card willingly if I have to go through customs as it's a necessity.

angrysoba

Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 446
Location: Kansai, Japan

Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:24 am Post subject:

Jazz1975 wrote:

PAULH wrote:

Hahahahhahhaha...that's too funny. And true too. Laughing

It's okay for you then, that makes everything all right. It doesn't affect me so it's no longer racist.

There are alot of people in Japan of Korean descent called zainichi nihonjin that have been here since birth and would otherwise be indistinct from Japanese. Many of them can't tell even their closest circle of friends about their Korean origins because they are worried about discrimination.

So, at the Hub they would probably have to choose between two forms of discrimination. Either a) they pretend to be Japanese and pay the extra discriminatory rate that Japanese do, or b) they show their gainjin card, which not even a police man can legally require you to do, to avoid being discriminated against by their Japanese friends.

Either way, it's a pretty bad state of affairs.

Sour Grape

Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 241

Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:32 am Post subject:

angrysoba wrote:

I remember once going to the Hub in Kyoto and seeing that gaijin were given a discount on pints of beer whereas Japanese had to pay full price. This too is explicitly racist.

No Hub I've ever been to has had that policy. Is it always the case at that particular Hub? Not saying you're wrong, just that that isn't true everywhere.

So would you say that ladies' nights, where women get cheaper drinks and / or entrance fees are explicitly sexist?

Jazz1975

Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 301
Location: Zama, Kanagawa

Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:35 am Post subject:

angrysoba wrote:

So, at the Hub they would probably have to choose between two forms of discrimination. Either a) they pretend to be Japanese and pay the extra discriminatory rate that Japanese do, or b) they show their gainjin card, which not even a police man can legally require you to do, to avoid being discriminated against by their Japanese friends.Either way, it's a pretty bad state of affairs.

Well, if they can tell I'm a gaijin when I open my mouth, I don't need to show my card and won't, especially since the police cannot legally require me to do so.

PAULH

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan

Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:59 am Post subject:

Jazz1975 wrote:

Well, if they can tell I'm a gaijin when I open my mouth, I don't need to show my card and won't, especially since the police cannot legally require me to do so.

The police can legally require you to do so, and so can immigration officials. Its an offence to not carry a gaijin card in Japan and technically you can be arrested if you have neither a gaijin card or a passport on you.

http://www.debito.org/whattodoif.html#gaijincard

http://www.debito.org/residentspage.html#checkpoints

You dont need to show it to anyone else though if they ask for it.

Jazz1975

Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 301
Location: Zama, Kanagawa

Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:08 am Post subject:

Point taken. And thanks for the links.

angrysoba

Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 446
Location: Kansai, Japan

Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:13 am Post subject:

Sour Grape wrote:

angrysoba wrote:

I remember once going to the Hub in Kyoto and seeing that gaijin were given a discount on pints of beer whereas Japanese had to pay full price. This too is explicitly racist.

The Hub in Kyoto had that policy...or at least it did the one time I went there. The pricing policy put me off so I didn't go again. The point is it is no different from having different prices for blacks and different prices for whites.

Are ladies' nights sexist? Well, I suppose they are. But I like going to bars that attract alot of women, so that probably makes me sexist too.

PAULH

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan

Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:14 am Post subject:

Jazz1975 wrote:

Point taken. And thanks for the links.

Just tell the barman you will show him yours if he shows you his.
Shocked

shikushiku-boy

Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 49
Location: Melbourne

Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:05 pm Post subject:

Good Lord! What ever happened to freedom of association? Surely, the OP has the right to associate with whomever he chooses during his free time? It shouldn't become a debate about race or gaijin cards. Shouldn't we all just cut each other a little slack? Shouldn't free time be just that...FREE! Life Japan isn't exactly a hippy commune. Don't people need a little time to do as they please? And who are we to telll others how they should spend their precious R&R?

Bozo Yoroshiku

Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Posts: 139
Location: the Chocolate Side of the Force

Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:14 pm Post subject:

shikushiku-boy wrote:

I worked in a Chinese city that had very exclusive (i.e. expensive) �Japanese only� bars. [...] It wouldn�t surprise me in the least if there were similar establishments in most of the worlds major capitals.

They're ALL OVER Bankok, and not just Japanese-only bars and karaoke, but Korean-only, too, usually situated right next to a major hotel. Felt in the mood for some Korean noraebang and they told me to get lost. Crying or Very sad

Didn't bother to try the Japanese places after that.

--boz

angrysoba

Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 446
Location: Kansai, Japan

Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:24 pm Post subject:

shikushiku-boy wrote:

Good Lord! What ever happened to freedom of association?

Surely, the OP has the right to associate with whomever
he chooses during his free time?

Shouldn't free time be just that...FREE!

Life Japan isn't exactly a hippy commune. Don't people
need a little time to do as they please?

And who are we to telll others how they should spend
their precious R&R?

The OP does have the right to associate with whomever he chooses. But he can't if he goes to a bar that is 'Japanese only'. He may not want to, but he should be able to.

Equally, his Japanese friends - if he has any - shouldn't be discrimanated against in the gaijin bars he wants to go to.

Quote:

Life Japan isn't exactly a hippy commune.

No it isn't. What's your point?

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