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Angelfish
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 131
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 Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:25 am Post subject: |
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I can't speak for any of the other conversation schools, but I reckon I'm getting a pretty good deal from Geos, and I hope to return the favours they're currently doing for my by doing my best for them when I get out there.
In my current situation I earn �14,900 a year for a 37.5 hour a week job. It's a graduate level job, 9 to 5 kinda thing, but recently we've had shifts put in and all kinds of crap. I get no benefits, no bonus, no company car/laptop/phone, nothing. They don't even pay time and a half for overtime. They don't give me anything towards my travel costs. The only decent thing about this dung-heap company is that we get 25 days holiday a year (the norm for Britain is about 20 - 25). Also, out of the �1,250 I get a month, �260 of that is taken in tax (about 20%), then I have to pay my council tax and rent, which leaves me about �600 a month. I've been doing this job 3 years with no pay rise other than inflation and am fully trained and have been for 2 of those years.
Geos, on the other hand, are going to find me an apartment and pay my deposit for me, they only require 29 hours a week from me and if I do overtime, they pay me well for it and I get commission for certain things. If I have to use public transport to get to the school, they'll buy my pass. Tax in Japan is only 11% and there's no council tax. My hours are gonna be set out for me from the begining, with changes only happening when the contracts renew and the new year starts. They're gonna pay my health insurance for me.
So far, the contact and support I've had from Geos, even though I haven't even left yet, has far outstripped everything I'm experiencing in this current job. I can't even get our HR manager to reply to an email.
And Geos are placing a lot of trust in me that I don't welch on them before I go, and that I stay for my contract. They're sorting out my visa for me.
I think I'm bluddy lucky, considering my lack of teaching experience (except piano), and when I compare my current situation to what I read about other people's experiences, Geos look to me like the employee's Godsend. All for pretty much the exact same salary, as well. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Geos, on the other hand, are going to find me an apartment and pay my deposit for me, they only require 29 hours a week from me |
That's probably 29 hours in the classroom. Even with a pre-formatted set of lessons that they have, you will have to spend additional time preparing for each lesson, filling out attendance after class, filling out individual student progress reports at the end of the day, filling out course progress reports, etc. Beginners have reported finishing their last class at 9pm, but with the paperwork, they don't leave the office until 9:45 or 10pm. And, there are social functions to attend just to help recruit new students or to get current ones to re-enroll. Plus, I'm sure they also ask teachers to interview prospective students to assess their levels. You are not going to be in and out with just 29 hours per week.
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| They're gonna pay my health insurance for me. |
Make absolutely sure of this. In the past year or so, eikaiwas don't because they can make use of a legal loophole and claim your classroom hours only in order to label you as part-time, even with 29 hours in class per week. And, if you opt to go for national health insurance, it is 2500 yen/month the first year, but ten times that the second year. If you go with a company plan the first year and change to NHI later, you are obligated to make NHI payments for that first year as well. Sucks, but that's the system here. |
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madeira
Joined: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 182
Location: Oppama
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| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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GEOS does pay your health insurance... and I think it's legit.
My 'shakkei hokken' (spelling?) was all paid up for the years I was there. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| madeira wrote: |
GEOS does pay your health insurance... and I think it's legit.
My 'shakkei hokken' (spelling?) was all paid up for the years I was there. |
Shakai Hoken (Social Welfare Insurance) the employee pays 50% of the premiums each month and the employer 50% |
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Angelfish
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 131
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| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, the insurance is paid. They're good about that.
The teaching hours are 25 hours a week and then the other 4 are for interviews and things like that, but I can also use them for lesson planning.
I know at first I'll find the lesson plans take me a long time, but with practise (like most things) I'll find it easier and easier to complete these and they'll tkae me less time. |
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madeira
Joined: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 182
Location: Oppama
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| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, Shakai hoken it is. Thanks!
GEOS pays for all of it. Not 50%.
Otherwise, no teacher will be doing 29 hours/week in class at GEOS. 25 or a bit more is possible. Overtime pay kicks in after (25?) hours.
Don't pay attention to Glenski on the paperwork for GEOS, either. Sorry, Glenski, but I don't think you've ever worked there. There are no 'course progress reports' or 'individual student progress reports'. Only 'study plans' to help renewals. A teacher might fill out one of these per student per year. Might.
Attendance can be done in class. So can a lot of other stuff. Homework should be checked in class; the students need their books back.
Sure, there is paperwork. It's not difficult or time-consuming, though, if you are a bit organised. A lot of it has been simplified in the past 5 years, or has disappeared.
As far as after-work functions go, you don't have to attend all of them! The major events are paid for at the overtime rate. O-hanami, for example.
Not saying I'd like to work there again! The hours were terrible. OK if you're a night owl, I guess. Nice people though, and very professional. |
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MrCAPiTUL
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 232
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
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| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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The bottom line of what I'm saying is this:
Get qualifications in your home country and become a professional teacher. Get the wind behind your back, and then fly to Japan on a GOOD salary package. Why sell yourself short? If you are trying to do this as a professional, do it properly. If not, and you are just going for a good time for a year, well then that leads into what my friend's mother said, to some degree.
The point my friend's mother was making:
MOST people that come to Japan do so because, as some have already said in their replies here, they have very few options in their home country. Most, oddly enough, come from 1st rate countries (USA, UK, Aus). These countries have plenty of ops for becoming a teacher. I see the point she was making. I think Abu had a good reply and hit the nail on the head. |
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MrCAPiTUL
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 232
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
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| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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The bottom line of what I'm saying is this:
Get qualifications in your home country and become a professional teacher. Get the wind behind your back, and then fly to Japan on a GOOD salary package. Why sell yourself short? If you are trying to do this as a professional, do it properly. If not, and you are just going for a good time for a year, well then that leads into what my friend's mother said, to some degree.
The point my friend's mother was making:
MOST people that come to Japan do so because, as some have already said in their replies here, they have very few options in their home country. Most, oddly enough, come from 1st rate countries (USA, UK, Aus). These countries have plenty of ops for becoming a teacher. I see the point she was making. I think Abu had a good reply and hit the nail on the head.
Also, I think luckbox made a good point: if the government is paying 300,000 en p/month, most other places should pay at least that, as well. Government monies come from Tax Payers! Thus, the government in almost every situation pays LESS THAN THE PRIVATE SECTOR. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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You have obviously never taught here, I have for 20 years and have a graduate education degree.
90% of people coming to work in Japan are not career teachers, They are not interested in teaching ESL in their own countries or as a teaching professional in japan.
the entry level jobs do not pay salaries that merit spending extra time and money getting qualifications in the US, apart from a BA. 'Teachers' here come because all imigration requires is a degree for the visa.
Both Abu and I are in the tertiary sector in Japan and have graduate degrees. The types of jobs available here at the professional level require in japan teaching experience, preferably Japanese ability as well as suitable qualifications.
There are NO good salary packages for people living overseas, unless they are flown in like Abu who has a PhD and teaching experience.
| MrCAPiTUL wrote: |
The bottom line of what I'm saying is this:
Get qualifications in your home country and become a professional teacher. Get the wind behind your back, and then fly to Japan on a GOOD salary package. Why sell yourself short? If you are trying to do this as a professional, do it properly. If not, and you are just going for a good time for a year, well then that leads into what my friend's mother said, to some degree. |
As I said, most of the people coming here are not professional certified teachers. You dont need a US teaching licence to teach ESL here. US teaching licences are not even recognised here. A Masters degree will cost you $20,000.
| Quote: |
The point my friend's mother was making:
MOST people that come to Japan do so because, as some have already said in their replies here, they have very few options in their home country. Most, oddly enough, come from 1st rate countries (USA, UK, Aus). These countries have plenty of ops for becoming a teacher. I see the point she was making. I think Abu had a good reply and hit the nail on the head. |
Your mothers friend doesnt know what she is talking about. Sure there is little demand for a BA in history in Canada , but there is no guarante of a job in Japan after getting a professional licence either. Some people CHOOSE not to go into law or business for their own reasons.
As I mentioned a high school or elementary school subect teacher is not the same as an ESL teacher.
| Quote: |
| Also, I think luckbox made a good point: if the government is paying 300,000 en p/month, most other places should pay at least that, as well. Government monies come from Tax Payers! Thus, the government in almost every situation pays LESS THAN THE PRIVATE SECTOR. |
If private schools paid what the JET program paid in salaries they would very quickly go out of business. NOVA, the biggest school in Japan with 4000 teachers is said to be on the verge of bankruptcy. Being paid less is better than having no job at all. Dozens of language schools have gone bankrupt in the last 10 years. |
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Angelfish
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 131
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| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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My contract states that I only have to attend one company function, the Christmas one, and I'm paid for the hours I'm there and any other functions I attend, I get paid to do, but to be honest, I think I'd quite like to do them. They sound like a great chance just to get to talk to people, your coworkers, students and potential students, and they could be a lot of fun.
The 25 teaching hours and 4 non-teaching hours are all regular time, but anything I do extra to that is then classed as overtime, which works out as 3000 Yen for each hour, which is about �15, which to me is a fair good amount. I currently charge �20 an hour for my piano lessons, and I've got years of experience with that. |
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The_Hanged_Man
Joined: 10 Oct 2004
Posts: 224
Location: Tbilisi, Georgia
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| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| MrCAPiTUL wrote: |
The bottom line of what I'm saying is this:
Get qualifications in your home country and become a professional teacher. Get the wind behind your back, and then fly to Japan on a GOOD salary package. Why sell yourself short? If you are trying to do this as a professional, do it properly. If not, and you are just going for a good time for a year, well then that leads into what my friend's mother said, to some degree. |
Assuming that the invidual in question wants to stay in education that makes sense. I used to work for AEON, and while it paid the bills and I managed to save a good amount, it really was a dead end job. Most of the people I met in Japan who stayed in the ALT/eikaiwa end of the job market for more than a few years tended to be either married to a Japanese or suffered from a lack of ambition. Few of them seemed really happy with their situation, and there was a sense that they were stuck in a rut.
After a year and a half at AEON, I went into the Teach for America program to transition into a secondary school teaching career in the states. After teaching math for 2 years a public high school, I will now be going back overseas to teach at an international school in Kuwait. Now I figure I can have the best of both worlds: I can indulge my love of travel while building a solid professional teaching career as well.  |
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luckbox
Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 180
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| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| PAULH wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Also, I think luckbox made a good point: if the government is paying 300,000 en p/month, most other places should pay at least that, as well. Government monies come from Tax Payers! Thus, the government in almost every situation pays LESS THAN THE PRIVATE SECTOR. |
If private schools paid what the JET program paid in salaries they would very quickly go out of business. NOVA, the biggest school in Japan with 4000 teachers is said to be on the verge of bankruptcy. Being paid less is better than having no job at all. Dozens of language schools have gone bankrupt in the last 10 years. |
Paul, let's be clear on this point. I think even you said in a previous post we need to distinguish between ALT jobs and eikaiwa work. Two different animals here. Except for the odd private high school, ALTs work in the public school system. Eikaiwa instructors work exclusively in the private sector. The two jobs are unrelated so pay scales in one should not really have much to do with the other.
Prior to de-regulation, most ALTs were hired thru government-run JET. And that salary was a decent standard, established by education bureaucrats, based on various factors, one of which being: what do we need to pay to attract quality (not to be confused with qualified) people?
Now that dispatch companies are in the game, there is no incentive to maintain the pre-set standard, and so invariably, you're gonna attract a weaker talent pool. The OP in this thread is a perfect example: here's guy (and he's not alone in his opinion) who is qualified and has much to bring to Japan in the way of teaching skills, but he's decided it's not worth his effort for such a lousy salary package. Prior to de-regulation, and under JET, he'd likey sign up. I can't say I blame him.
As with all private enterprise, the goal is to make cash, and the people paying the biggest price are ALTs and students. The BOEs get off relatively easy. The only reason dispatch companies pay a minimum of 250,000 is because they are forced to by law. So, if the government is serious about raising the standard bar up, they can quite easily, and companies like Interac will be forced to comply. If they can't comply, then they have no business being in education. But any shift in attitude at the Japan Education Ministry seems unlikely in the current Japanese economy.
So yes, dispatch companies are "winning" the ALT market race, but who is winning, and who is losing? Big private firms like Interac are raking in the bucks; ALTs are seeing big reductions in pay relative to previously established standards. The OP is just one of thousands around the world currently saying, fvck it, I'll stick to my profession at home and wait til the right offer presents itself, or go to another country.
Yes, it is true that the aim of JET is as much about internationalization as it is educational, and they don't necessarily seek out trained teachers from abroad. However, even with this being the case, the lower the pay, the lesser the talent. Good people with degrees in arts, history, computer science, math will be far less interested in coming to Japan under current salary conditions than they might have a decade ago. If the Japanese govt is serious about English education in its schools, it would address this by passing tougher standards and entry requirements. In recent years, they've done the exact opposite, and education will suffer as a result.
Your comments about the ALT job description within JET obviously indicates your lack of first-hand knowledge about the program. It's unfair and factually wrong to generalize like you do because ESID. As a JET ALT, I personally was run off my feet, planned and taught lessons, sometimes without the aid of my JTE. I participated in various school clubs and extras, worked the odd weekend, and also taught night eikaiwa classes to local adults for no extra pay. Had I been making 250,000/month (minus 80,000/rent, & pay my own flight), I'd of likely never come in the first place, certainly would not have stayed longer than a year. Instead, JET did pay me and treat me well, so I stayed 3 years, which saved the BOE lots of cash in expenses related to hiring new ALT's year after year. Raise the bar even higher, and more JETs stay longer, resulting in loads of savings on traning, orientations, flights and so on.
Another important point. This is not all about money, but rather, about recognizing the effort required in leaving one's home country (effectively putting one's life on hold) and coming to Japan, and being compensated according to the local costs of living. Heck, if I'm gonna work for low pay, I may as well do it in a developing country where I know the nation truly can't afford it, and thus where my efforts will be much more appreciated. |
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rai
Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 119
Location: Osaka
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| Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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| MrCAPiTUL wrote: |
The point my friend's mother was making:
MOST people that come to Japan do so because, as some have already said in their replies here, they have very few options in their home country. . |
What the hell does "your friend's mother " know about teaching in Japan?! Does she teach English here?
You are such an obvious troll that I can't believe people are replying to you 
Take the advice of your "friend's mother" and don't come here, 'cuz it's really awful. Maybe she can give you some good career advice about another place to teach.  |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 12:49 am Post subject: |
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| Don't pay attention to Glenski on the paperwork for GEOS, either. Sorry, Glenski, but I don't think you've ever worked there. There are no 'course progress reports' or 'individual student progress reports'. Only 'study plans' to help renewals. A teacher might fill out one of these per student per year. Might. |
I see you said things have changed in the last 5 years. Good. My information is precisely 5 years old and from a close friend who worked there.
I don't appreciate the snippiness in your first remark, madeira. You could have worded it better. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 12:51 am Post subject: |
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| NOVA, the biggest school in Japan with 4000 teachers is said to be on the verge of bankruptcy. |
I've heard that rumor at least twice in the last 3 years. |
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