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Brooks
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1369 Location: Sagamihara
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Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 7:55 am Post subject: Why is it? |
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this is something that bugs me, and other people too.
I mean about JTEs who don`t speak English, who try to avoid speaking English.
I know teachers who speak English well, some that don`t but at least try to.
I met a juku teacher four years ago who taught English but didn`t speak English well, and felt bad about it and asked me to help him. Ok, I thought. Good attitude.
My wife is an English and Japanese teacher, and she isn`t perfect, she makes a few grammar mistakes and her pronunciation could be better, but she tries, and never hesitates to speak English.
Why would anyone become an English teacher and not want to speak English? I know English is hard, and some people are shy/nervous/insecure, but why? |
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Doglover
Joined: 14 Dec 2004 Posts: 305 Location: Kansai
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Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:03 am Post subject: Re: Why is it? |
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Brooks wrote: |
this is something that bugs me, and other people too.
I mean about JTEs who don`t speak English, who try to avoid speaking English.
I know teachers who speak English well, some that don`t but at least try to.
I met a juku teacher four years ago who taught English but didn`t speak English well, and felt bad about it and asked me to help him. Ok, I thought. Good attitude.
My wife is an English and Japanese teacher, and she isn`t perfect, she makes a few grammar mistakes and her pronunciation could be better, but she tries, and never hesitates to speak English.
Why would anyone become an English teacher and not want to speak English? I know English is hard, and some people are shy/nervous/insecure, but why? |
Why don't Latin teachers speak Latin?
You are assuming English is taught for communicative purposes i.e. to speak to people with.
English is studied like a dead language and JTEs study the grammar like you would learn history or social studies. They teach language the same way they are taught i.e drillls and rote memorisation. They are not taught English in any other way.
Secondly, there is the loss of face involved in anon-native English teacher who can not use the language in front of his students and perhaps be corrected by an ALT twenty years younger than him. |
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angrysoba

Joined: 20 Jan 2006 Posts: 446 Location: Kansai, Japan
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Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:34 am Post subject: |
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If the Japanese teacher refuses to speak English in class or in preparing lessons then it's unreasonable to expect the students to speak it.
I remember teaching one class in which the students were playing karuta. There were cards laid out on the table of various body parts and the students had to slam the card when they heard me say 'head', for example. The first student to slam the card gets the card.
Anyway, I would shout out 'head', the JTE would then say 'atama', I would say 'leg' and he would say 'ashi'. The whole game became pointless.
He would even translate simple instructions such as 'stand up' and 'please listen'.
He shouldn't have been an English teacher, and I don't think he wanted to be, but this was in an elementary school and they were scraping the bottom of the barrel. |
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shuize
Joined: 04 Sep 2004 Posts: 1270
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Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:21 am Post subject: |
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I think I've posted something on this subject before. Ah, yes. Climbing in my way-back machine, I found this post in the off-topic China forum:
shuize wrote: |
I have had similar experiences in Japan. Of the perhaps 30 English teachers I worked with over any length of time, I'd say about 4 were "good" enough to have something approaching a basic conversation in English. Some were so bad I am convinced the kids would have been better off not taking their classes at all. Respectful suggestions were ignored. I soon learned that any advice I might think to give was not worth the air it took from my lungs to utter.
As the poster above notes, I never really understood how someone could think of their career as that of "English teacher" and not be able to hold a simple conversation about the weather.
One thing that used to make me laugh though was when I varied the ritual morning greeting, which might as well have been written in stone (Q: How are you? A: Fine thank you, and you?). Rebel that I was, I would sometimes answer "Fine thank you" and stop there. Jesus, you'd think I ruined the whole class.
Japanese teacher: No, you must ask how they are too.
Me: I'm not interested in how they are. Especially since I already know they are, and forever will be, 'fine.'
Japanese teacher: Well, then ask about the weather. (Oh, yeah, this was another unvarying ritual -- Q: How's the weather? A: It's fine.)
Me: Okay. How's the weather?
Japanese students: It's fine.
Me: It's raining outside.
Japanese teacher: No, no. The answer is, 'It's fine'
Me: If you say so.
Japanese teacher: Now ask me what I like.
Me: What you like? You mean, 'What's your hobby?'
Japanese teacher: No. What I like.
Me: Okay. What do you like?
Japanese teacher: I like ski.
Me: It's 'skiing.' 'I like skiing.' Or 'I like to ski.'
Japanese teacher: Yes. I like ski, too.
And so on. |
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abufletcher
Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 779 Location: Shikoku Japan (for now)
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Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:25 am Post subject: |
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Reasons students in my pre-service course of future Japanese EFL teachers have given me for why they want to be a teachers:
1. School lunches are so tasty and I want to eat them everyday.
2. I want be English teacher because I'm want learning English very much.
Assuming that JTEs actually WANT to teach English is a mistake. For the most part, they are just there in the system, filling a slot. BTW, you don't want to know WHY students become English majors. Trust me. It's certainly not a love of (or much less ability in) English. |
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Jazz1975
Joined: 14 Feb 2006 Posts: 301 Location: Zama, Kanagawa
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Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:56 am Post subject: |
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abufletcher wrote: |
1. School lunches are so tasty and I want to eat them everyday.
2. I want be English teacher because I'm want learning English very much. |
That's too funny . |
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Brooks
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1369 Location: Sagamihara
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:11 am Post subject: |
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no, Doglover, I certainly know English is taught like a dead language by many (but not all) JTEs.
I was thinking of a couple teachers that avoid speaking English. One in particular who can`t even mutter "hello" or say anything in English.
I remember my high school as a student, and all the foreign language teachers could speak French, German, Spanish, and Russian to varying degrees, from near fluency to only an adequate level. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 4672 Location: Western Japan
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:47 am Post subject: |
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Brooks wrote: |
no, Doglover, I certainly know English is taught like a dead language by many (but not all) JTEs.
I was thinking of a couple teachers that avoid speaking English. One in particular who can`t even mutter "hello" or say anything in English.
I remember my high school as a student, and all the foreign language teachers could speak French, German, Spanish, and Russian to varying degrees, from near fluency to only an adequate level. |
hes probably worried you will embarrass him or show up his ignorance when he speaks English. Or as Abu says, he simply hates it.
Again your assumption is that they learn the language to speak it. That is obviously not the case. JTEs teach their students how to read and write memorise vocabulary and pass the entrance exam. Production skills dont come into it. He probably never even heard spoken English in ten years of formal schooling. How do you expect him to be able to speak English after that time? they dont teach pronunication at high school or university.
I teach education majors and most of them their pronunciation is atrocious. |
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kdynamic

Joined: 05 Nov 2005 Posts: 562 Location: Japan
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:06 am Post subject: |
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Here's some food for thought: all the JTE's I have known who speak great English are actually former JTEs who are now working at higher levels in their schools or at the prefectural Education office. Moral of the story - the good ones get promoted out of the classroom. |
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Brooks
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1369 Location: Sagamihara
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Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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Kdynamic, I agree.
The bilingual teachers did get promoted where I have worked.
It seems that having to handle the foreign teachers is a job some want to avoid, but some Japanese teacher has to do it.
Paul, I know how kids learn English.
I don`t agree with the system, but it is the way it is: to pass the university entrance exams.
Doing well on the Eiken is not that much of a priority.
The guy I am thinking of went to a good university that starts with W and is educated. Another teacher went there, is about the same age, but can speak English. Maybe it is psychological.
Why xenophobes want to teach a foreign language is beyond me. |
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