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Captain Onigiri
Joined: 20 Jan 2005
Posts: 103
Location: fly-over land
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 Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:55 am Post subject: |
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Let me get really philosophical.
As human beings, there isn't any such thing as "them". There is only "us". |
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fox1
Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Posts: 268
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:32 am Post subject: Re: Just... so... tired of being a freak, day in and day out |
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| kdynamic wrote: |
This discussion kind of got started in another thread but I didn't want to go off topic over there so I started a new one.
Anyway, lately I have just been exausted by constantly being treated like a freak. Constantly being stared at. Constantly being asked stupid questions. I have friends and coworkers that treat me like a normal human being, but whenever we go anywhere it starts all over with the staring and pointing.... I know Japan has serious legal and social problems with racism. But I am talking more about the everyday sort of things. The things you can't escape even if you're not dealing with renting an apartment or finding a job or becoming a citizen or any of the other big junctures where it crops up. I am talking about going to the supermarket, riding the train, just doing your job at work.
The things is, this is NOT a surprise to me. I'm not a Japan newbie. I know this topic has been gone over a thousand times. But what I can't figure out is why is it bothing me more and more instead of less and less? I plan to be here a little while longer... is it just going to keep getting worse? I know I am not going to change Japan, but how do I change myself so it doesn't bother me? I know culture shock and adjusting is a long and cyclical process with ups and downs, but I don't think I wil ever learn to simply accept racism and prejudice. So what do I do? Have any other people gone through coming to terms with this, thought they were doing ok with it, and then BAM been hit with it all over again? That's how I am feeling. |
I don't really get what you're talking about. I have found the people brilliant. Nothing I can really complain of. I have been stared at all of about once. If you think this is staring here, go to China. Everyone stares at you there. It's completely out in the open.. and I didn't have a problem with it there. |
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Synne
Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Posts: 269
Location: Tohoku
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:06 am Post subject: |
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China is filthy, I cannot believe some of us pride ourselves on our so called "accomplishments" in such a country.
I have no hate towards the country, it is simply not my preference.
Original poster, my first arrival in Japan, I was 18. It was always difficult fitting in. I felt as if I was in elementary school once again and everything was beyond me. I guess Im trying to say that although you feel lost at times, you will make progress, and slowly youll arrive at a better place for it, just keep on moving forward. |
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fox1
Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Posts: 268
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| Synne wrote: |
China is filthy, I cannot believe some of us pride ourselves on our so called "accomplishments" in such a country.
I have no hate towards the country, it is simply not my preference.
Original poster, my first arrival in Japan, I was 18. It was always difficult fitting in. I felt as if I was in elementary school once again and everything was beyond me. I guess Im trying to say that although you feel lost at times, you will make progress, and slowly youll arrive at a better place for it, just keep on moving forward. |
China isn't filthy. It's a big, rough 'n ready, extremely friendly, hospitable, open, sophisticated country. Much like that 'other' big country. In many ways, the people are more polite, dare I say "sophisticated" than the people here.
Are the male toilets always first, with the female toilets way back down the end... whether it's railway stations, dept stores, you name it? No, they aren't.
Do guys just piss in the middle of streets with traffic going by, or in shotengais facing the middle, like it's their back garden? In China, no. |
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Synne
Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Posts: 269
Location: Tohoku
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:30 am Post subject: |
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-Women spitting, belching, farting in public as though it were nothing.
-Public toilets that make outhouses seem a throne of gold.
-The poor, everwhere, scrounging like animals.
-Litter everywhere.
-Ppl do not use the streets as a toilet? I wonder just how much of China youve seen.
China needs to clean up, on the whole it needs improvement.
Sorry to lead this topic astray, future posts will do no such thing. |
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in_japan
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 1:24 am Post subject: |
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| Sweetsee wrote: |
| Gaijinalways touched on it Kdynamic and I will say it again: it's all about you, what you make of the attention, perceived or otherwise. There's no way around it, if you live in the boonies you are going to be something to look at. The trick is to play it off, make like you are no different than anyone else. Try and think of yourself as not even there while you are sitting on the train. Fill your mind with pleasant thoughts and wear a smile. Think about how lucky you are in this time and place. Think about things you are going to do in the near future that will be fun. And most importantly think of others. Think about what it would be like if you were them, living all their lives in a rural backwater where the highlight of the day is the evening wide-show or perhaps a trip to the public bath. And above all, enjoy yourself, each and every minute--life is short. |
That's great advice! I'll be employing it on the train ride to work this morning! I've been in Japan just over a month. For the most part I'm having an amazing time, but we all have our moments. Sometimes I just feel like everyone is staring at me (and they usually are!). |
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fox1
Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Posts: 268
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 1:57 am Post subject: |
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| Synne wrote: |
-Women spitting, belching, farting in public as though it were nothing.
-Public toilets that make outhouses seem a throne of gold.
-The poor, everwhere, scrounging like animals.
-Litter everywhere.
-Ppl do not use the streets as a toilet? I wonder just how much of China youve seen.
China needs to clean up, on the whole it needs improvement.
Sorry to lead this topic astray, future posts will do no such thing. |
people spit here too.
There's litter all over San Francisco, to use one example.
Sure, it's a poor country. The toilets may be bad, but watch out for the new China. Often, Chinese toilets can be thrones of gold compared to the subways of New York, London, Paris or Sydney, for example.
Have you ever pissed in the street? All I'm saying is, no, people in China, (in broad daylight for one thing, as well as night), in general don't just piss anywhere in the street, facing whoever the hell walks by. Spitting, sure.
I have been to more of China than most people, including Chinese.
As for scrounging, well, there's way more homeless in Osaka than I saw in any Chinese city
..also, I never heard people farting. in 600 days
Last edited by fox1 on Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:02 am; edited 1 time in total |
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jeffinflorida
Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Posts: 2024
Location: "I'm too proud to beg and too lazy to work" Uncle Fester, The Addams Family season two
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:00 am Post subject: |
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I grew up in new York City. i Pissed in the street, and on the subway platform, and in between the train cars.
And I am not even Asian.
Ever hear the running joke - 'What's the largest urinal in the world?" It's called the New York City Subway... |
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Jazz1975
Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 301
Location: Zama, Kanagawa
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:14 am Post subject: |
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| jeffinflorida wrote: |
I grew up in new York City. i Pissed in the street, and on the subway platform, and in between the train cars.
And I am not even Asian.
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What's that got to do with being Asian? |
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jeffinflorida
Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Posts: 2024
Location: "I'm too proud to beg and too lazy to work" Uncle Fester, The Addams Family season two
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:32 am Post subject: |
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| Jazz1975 wrote: |
What's that got to do with being Asian?
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Previous posters have discussed Asians pissing in the street in their respective counties. |
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wangtesol
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 280
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:37 am Post subject: |
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My favourite aspect of Chinese culture is the "zifei", the bullet fee that is sent to the family of an executed person. About 10,000 of those go out every year. Ain't killing dissidents fun? Let's be positive about state sanctioned murder!
Gee, what could be unlikeable about a country with 300 million people streaming into the cities with no health insurance?
I saw Tibetan orphans begging on the streets in Shanghai and one person seemingly dead underneath an overpass.
You can see this in Western countries as well, of course, but it is multiplied by huge factor in China. And it is getting much worse as the largest migrant in the history of the world takes place: villagers moving into the cities. Imagine Dyckensian England and you'll get the picture.
God. I cannot write that the author of Oliver Twist was Charles Dickens.
Last edited by wangtesol on Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:39 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Synne
Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Posts: 269
Location: Tohoku
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:37 am Post subject: |
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| fox1 wrote: |
| Synne wrote: |
-Women spitting, belching, farting in public as though it were nothing.
-Public toilets that make outhouses seem a throne of gold.
-The poor, everwhere, scrounging like animals.
-Litter everywhere.
-Ppl do not use the streets as a toilet? I wonder just how much of China youve seen.
China needs to clean up, on the whole it needs improvement.
Sorry to lead this topic astray, future posts will do no such thing. |
people spit here too.
There's litter all over San Francisco, to use one example.
Sure, it's a poor country. The toilets may be bad, but watch out for the new China. Often, Chinese toilets can be thrones of gold compared to the subways of New York, London, Paris or Sydney, for example.
Have you ever pissed in the street? All I'm saying is, no, people in China, (in broad daylight for one thing, as well as night), in general don't just piss anywhere in the street, facing whoever the hell walks by. Spitting, sure.
I have been to more of China than most people, including Chinese.
As for scrounging, well, there's way more homeless in Osaka than I saw in any Chinese city
..also, I never heard people farting. in 600 days |
I understand every country has its filth problems, but Chinas is too much.
Are you really trying to compare Japan, Canada, and America to China in terms of cleanliness?
...if so I think you might need to star seeing the forest beyond the trees. |
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stillnosheep
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 2068
Location: eslcafe
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:56 am Post subject: |
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| Travel Zen wrote: |
kdynamic should know that Japan is 'polite society' compared to nitty-gritty China.
Keith had some good experiences to tell you, but he didn't mention any bad ones and I guarantee you...they may totally outweigh the good ones for many.
Funny thing is that if staring bothers you, what about touching your hair, face, having 10 people hold discussions about you while you are sitting in a bus or train reading a book, being charged 10 times more for anything that you buy, etc?
China. Will you last?  A unique experience for anybody. |
"The bad experiences (may) outweigh the good for some." Acceptable, but uninformative sentence as is true of every country on earth. And so meaningless.
"The bad experiences outweigh the good for many". Meaningful and informative, although no evidence of it's accuracy/truthfulness, except in so far that, as so many people visit China, then, unless China is perfect, (which it isn't) the bad will outweigh the good for some of them (and 'some' of so very many is still 'many') just as the good seems to outweigh the bad for so many many more.
But "The bad experiences may totally outweigh the bad ones for many.....!!!!! What kind of garbled English is this? What does it mean? "Their bad experiences with Black Canadians may (totally) outweigh the good ones for many" Well they may; it's just about feasible in some imaginary world. But the sentence still reads like rascist twaddle for a reason. It is rascist twaddle.
And as for "China. Will you last?" Hahahahahahahahaha!!!
China's civilization has endured since the days when some of Travel Zen's ancestors were covered in woad or clubbing seals. Oh I forgot. They still do that in Canada, don't they? - 200 yrs of the white man's civilization does not much of a history make.
The real question is. Will Canada endure long to bequeth to the world some tiny fraction of the history, culture, inventiveness and dynamism that China has already bequethed, is bequething, and will continue to bequeth in the future?
Well Canada? Will you? |
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angrysoba
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 446
Location: Kansai, Japan
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 6:23 am Post subject: |
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I'm guessing that Travel Zen meant 'Do you think you are capable of putting up with life in China?' when he/she said 'China. Will you last?'. Not asking about China's survival chances.
China certainly has bequeathed alot to mankind despite Mao's attempts to vandalize China in the Cultural Revolution, and attempts to spread this vandalism to other parts of the world (China's sponsorship of the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia and support for the most obscene nation in existence - the DPRK).
In Japan, people complain about being treated like a freak, that is because alot of people here are just as curious about 'exotic' foreigners as those that came to 'exotic' Japan. |
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kdynamic
Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 562
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 6:58 am Post subject: |
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| Well I am not looking to go to China for cleanliness or a life that's always easy. Boring. I want to go to study the language and have a new experience, and hopefully come to understand some things about the culture and history and people. I would approach living in China with totally different expectations than I have for Japan. |
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