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denise
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 3419
Location: finally home-ish
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 Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| PAULH wrote: |
There was another one here called Lakeland but its for Japanese students who are funnelled to the main campus in the US. A few Japanese universities have tie-ups with foreign universities and hire foreign teachers for their EAP programs. |
That's what my program was like. They finished their coursework at the branch campus and then transferred to the mother campus (does such a term exist?!?) in the US. It's too bad they're all closing down now. It was a really nice program.
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 6:27 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| As Gordon says many people only find a f/t university position after spending (often considerable) time working part-time positions. This is fine if you're already working in Japan and if you don't mind piddling away years of your career in junk jobs in Japan hoping to one day "move up." |
I've known a large number of people who successfully made the jump. The keys to doing it are degrees (an MA minimum), teaching experience (university-related the best, ALT a distant second, eikaiwa experience...not really counted), and of course luck. I've posted on this extensively in the past--you may want to hunt down some of those earlier posts.
| Quote: |
| Japan is a large market for junk-level "English teacher" positions, but not a particularly large (or attractive) market for university EFL. In terms of professionalism (and professional training) most university level jobs in the Middle East are much better. Maybe after you get your MA you might also find you're able to move into a much better university position in Korea. |
Again, as I've pointed out before, the Middle East has its own horror stories (including most of the schools in Saudi Arabia), and suggesting Korea as a more professional (!?) alternative to Japan is just plain funny. Certainly, there are good universities in Korea--and there are several great universities in UAE and Oman. Such places also exist in this country as well. Build up your credentials and find them. |
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abufletcher
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 779
Location: Shikoku Japan (for now)
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 7:18 am Post subject: |
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| taikibansei wrote: |
| Again, as I've pointed out before, the Middle East has its own horror stories (including most of the schools in Saudi Arabia), and suggesting Korea as a more professional (!?) alternative to Japan is just plain funny. Certainly, there are good universities in Korea--and there are several great universities in UAE and Oman. Such places also exist in this country as well. Build up your credentials and find them. |
I'll agree that Saudi is somewhat of an exception but even in "the Magic Kingdom" there are good university jobs to be had for people with an MA and a bit of experience (for example the University of Petroleum and Minerals). And I'll also admit that things have recently changed for the worse with the opening up of numerous fly-by-night private "universities" in many of the Gulf countries. On the other hand, this could also be considered a plus, since it has opened up a whole other level of EFL positions for those without an MA.
Nevertheless, in my 12 years of experience of working in the Gulf (Saudi, Kuwait, and Oman, and lots of colleagues working in the UAE), I've got to say that there is just no comparison between the level of professionalism (both on the part of teachers and administration) between the often huge language centers at Gulf Universities and what passes for general ed EFL at most Japanese universities. Just no comparison whatsoever. The Gulf is, hands down, a more professionally-enriching place to be an EFL instructor. I'm not saying that there aren't some major hassles to working in the Gulf (or with Arab students) but working in a structured program with a group of other teachers all with MA's in linguistics/TESOL is just bound to be more professional.
This is not something magical about the Gulf or Arab culture. It could be that way here in Japan too, if Japanese universities would just all agree to only hire MA-holders for full-time (full benefit) positions instead of cheaping out with part-timers with often limited credentials (or using dispatch companies).
In terms of the size of the market, again I think the Gulf might win out in terms of sheer numbers of university-level EFL jobs requiring an MA. Here in Japan there are lots and lots of universities (but that number is shrinking) but each of these university might only employ a very small number of full-time EFL instructors. Currently, my university has ONE full-timer EFL instructor. Another local recently privatized "National University" may have as many as 5-7 full-timers. By contrast, many of the language centers in the Gulf employ well over 50 full-time MA holders and some language centers (for example, at Sultan Qaboos University in Oman) have over 100 full-time EFL instructors (again all with MA's). At the University of Kuwait, my EFL unit alone (College of Commerce) had more than 40 full-timers and there were 3-4 other units at the univeristy with similar size EFL units.
So I'd say that the chances of finding (and keeping) an full-time university EFL position in Gulf is significantly better than doing so in Japan. It might take you years in Japan to work your way into a stable university position (just ask Paul) whereas with an MA, a year or two of EFL experience, and a little persistence, you'll probably be able to land a Gulf job in a year or two of looking (and maybe a visit to the TESOL job market).
As far as teaching at Korean universities, I really have no experience there. But, all I can say is that I'd hire someone with full-time university teaching experiencce in Korea over someone with Jet-like ALT or eikaiwa experience in Japan -- all other things being equal.
If I wanted to just teach EFL, I'd go back to the Gulf in a flash. |
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abufletcher
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 779
Location: Shikoku Japan (for now)
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| But, I don't know, maybe I'm just going on limited experience here in Japan. Anyone out there work in a large, well-organized EFL unit with a strong sense of professionalism? |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
I'll agree that Saudi is somewhat of an exception but even in "the Magic Kingdom" there are good university jobs to be had for people with an MA and a bit of experience (for example the University of Petroleum and Minerals). And I'll also admit that things have recently changed for the worse with the opening up of numerous fly-by-night private "universities" in many of the Gulf countries. On the other hand, this could also be considered a plus, since it has opened up a whole other level of EFL positions for those without an MA.... |
I've had friends--ESL/EFL professionals with excellent teaching experience, degrees, and multiple publications--who've taught at universities in Korea and throughout the Middle East...and hated it. Really, truly, hated it. I'm too busy to go into details, but you can get a taste for many of the complaints on especially the Korean board here on this site.
I've taught for 20 years myself at the university level, almost an even split between Japan and the US. However, with positions in the latter country, and especially when I was academic supervisor in charge of a university ESL program, I had an opportunity to deal with students (and teachers) from many other countries. I'll say it again, there just is no ESL/EFL Shangri La out there--the challenges are always there, just different. A professional just deals with them...or goes elsewhere. |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:17 am Post subject: |
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| abufletcher wrote: |
| But, I don't know, maybe I'm just going on limited experience here in Japan. Anyone out there work in a large, well-organized EFL unit with a strong sense of professionalism? |
Well, golly, I do!  Wait, what do I know? I mean, I've only worked at (now) three universities in this country....
I better let you guys get back to your regular programming. Yeah, go to Korea and enjoy the "professionalism" there...that's the ticket. 
Last edited by taikibansei on Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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abufletcher
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 779
Location: Shikoku Japan (for now)
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| taikibansei wrote: |
| I've had friends--ESL/EFL professionals with excellent teaching experience, degrees, and multiple publications--who've taught at universities in Korea and throughout the Middle East...and hated it. Really, truly, hated it. |
For the VERY serious EFL professional (i.e. into publication, innovative new experiments in methodology, etc.) most of the jobs (but not all) in the Middle East can be frustrating as the programs tend to be more lock-step. Gulf universities also aren't very supportive of "research" or of attending conferences. Again an obvious annoyance for the serious pro.
Actually Japan is ahead of the game here as typically no one cares at all what you do in class -- or out of class. The sensei is GOD in his or her own little classroom -- which can be very liberating. There is also a great deal of pretention at Japanese universities about "scholarship" and every university no matter how lowly has its own little non-peer reviewed journal that its professors can publish in.
There are many very well-known and respected EFL profesionals who have worked here in Japan. Perhaps more than in the Gulf. They have been able to travel freely to conferences and get plenty of financial support for reseach (I figure I've gone through something like $40,000 in research budgets in the 10 years I've been here). But such jobs are rare and not representative of university EFL jobs in general in Japan. BTW, my job is NOT an EFL job.
For people with a freshly minted MA and not much EFL teaching experience, the Gulf is going to be a better "post-graduate" training experience. Again Saudi is a "special" case. Saudi is where EFL teachers go to die.
Of course there are lots of things to hate about the Gulf (and about Korea) but in my experience what people hate about the Gulf is the restrictions on lifestyle. Yes, there are also the usual number of bone head administrators as anywhere else in the world but by and large you work with a larger number of like-minded people.
But let's look at it another way. Let's say there is the same ratio of "professionals" to "slackers" in both Japan and the Gulf. Let's say that there are 2 professionals for every 8 slackers. Well given the numbers of full-time EFL teachers at most Japanese universities that works out to maybe two or three "pros" (and maybe as few as none) whereas out of the 100 teachers at a large Gulf university language center, you'll be able to find at least 20 pros you'll be happy to work with, and those pros typically end of in coordinator positions being able to somewhat control the most blatant lapses in professionalism by those 80 slackers. There is of course as very heavy turn-over among the slackers and those that just can't adjust to culture very different to their own.
| Quote: |
| I'll say it again, there just is no ESL/EFL Shangri La out there--the challenges are always there, just different. |
Shangri La in the the Middle East? Hardly. But it's not the cultural void or professional hell-hole people seem to think it is either. Once you screen out the people who don't make it beyond their first contract, it's been my impression that most expats enjoy their life in the Gulf.
When I lived in the Gulf I used to imagine that Japan would be a much more professional place to work. What a shock. Of course, in my own little world here down in Shikoku things are pretty good. I can do what I want and no one bothers me about it. But then I don't try to make any impact whatsoever on the "big picture" since there is absolutely no chance that anything is ever going to change in term of administrative structure of EFL courses.
Last edited by abufletcher on Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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abufletcher
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 779
Location: Shikoku Japan (for now)
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| taikibansei wrote: |
| Well, golly, I do! |
Well, that's GREAT! Let's hear a bit about the program. |
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ssphinx
Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:28 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for all the input.
I guess I'll do my degree and let the future work itself out. Preferably, I would like make the move someday to a Japanese university. However, I am not sure if I want to work "junk" jobs or part time university jobs with the hope of moving up. It seems a bit trying and risky.
As for the working at Korean universities, what you see in the contract is what you get. There are still some very good jobs at Korean universities in terms of working hours, pay and benefits. While other jobs have been downsized or made more into hagwon like jobs.
There are two trends in EFL at Korean universities at the moment. One is a progressive ESP approach and the other is hogwanization. It all depends on each university's administration. |
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abufletcher
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 779
Location: Shikoku Japan (for now)
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, here in Japan it's the "same ol' same ol'. No matter how much (or what type) of experience you have in EFL you'll always be told "Well, you need to get a little bit of JAPAN EXPERIENCE first." As if, teaching EFL to Japanese students is unlike anything else you might have experienced anywhere else on the planet.
I think what people are unconsciously afraid of is that you might bring with you from that "foreign world" some new-fangled CRAZY ideas about teaching language. Better to have everyone conforming to the same language teacher mold before you let them into your university. |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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| ssphinx wrote: |
| There are two trends in EFL at Korean universities at the moment. One is a progressive ESP approach and the other is hogwanization. It all depends on each university's administration. |
The same thing has been happening here in Japan. Some (probably the majority of) Japanese universities have allowed their university EFL programs to become glorified eikaiwas--with the caveat that this "conversation" is mentored by an often unqualified (therefore cheap) foreigner and takes place in classes of 40 or more disinterested students.
However, in response to increasing demographic and economic pressures, universities here have needed to resort to a number of increasingly creative strategies to ensure an adequate student population. As one such "creative" strategy, many Japanese universities have decided that increasing the quality of education might just be one way to improve student enrollments. This includes university EFL programs--e.g., we have here a majority of foreign faculty (all published extensively, all with at least an MA, and at least 5 years of university teaching experience), though even the EFL Japanese faculty here teach in English as well. And no, we're not the only Japanese university doing this.
I have an article coming out on this...hopefully later in the year. Will let you know if/when it appears. |
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abufletcher
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 779
Location: Shikoku Japan (for now)
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| Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:21 am Post subject: |
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| taikibansei wrote: |
| This includes university EFL programs--e.g., we have here a majority of foreign faculty (all published extensively, all with at least an MA, and at least 5 years of university teaching experience), though even the EFL Japanese faculty here teach in English as well. |
Sounds similar to the "foundation program" being offered by Temple. Could you give some idea what sort of employment package your university offers these foreign faculty? Are these ful-time postions? Tenured or contract? If contract, what's the contract period and are these contracts renewable? Local hires or hired from abroad?
I'm sure we're all anxious to these details now. It would be nice to be able to present these facts to the people at my own university. And please do let us know when and when your article is published. |
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abufletcher
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 779
Location: Shikoku Japan (for now)
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| Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:49 am Post subject: |
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I am really REALLY curious, because these are just not the sorts of jobs I've ever heard about in Japan.
I'd also be interested to know how you go about recruiting staff with these qualifications. One year we placed a job announcement here on Dave's and got about 300 applications of which perhaps about 20 had the MA + a couple years of relevant experience we were looking for. But then this was only a 2-year limit contract position with a none too plush salary.
Last edited by abufletcher on Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:54 am Post subject: |
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I csnt really show the link here but i have it on record as the riji-cho of Ritsumeikan University saying he wants part timer jobs at the uni to be done by dispatch teachers in the near future, rather than by guys with MAs.
Sign of the times? Pack your parachutes guys.
| taikibansei wrote: |
| ssphinx wrote: |
| There are two trends in EFL at Korean universities at the moment. One is a progressive ESP approach and the other is hogwanization. It all depends on each university's administration. |
The same thing has been happening here in Japan. Some (probably the majority of) Japanese universities have allowed their university EFL programs to become glorified eikaiwas--with the caveat that this "conversation" is mentored by an often unqualified (therefore cheap) foreigner and takes place in classes of 40 or more disinterested students.
However, in response to increasing demographic and economic pressures, universities here have needed to resort to a number of increasingly creative strategies to ensure an adequate student population. As one such "creative" strategy, many Japanese universities have decided that increasing the quality of education might just be one way to improve student enrollments. This includes university EFL programs--e.g., we have here a majority of foreign faculty (all published extensively, all with at least an MA, and at least 5 years of university teaching experience), though even the EFL Japanese faculty here teach in English as well. And no, we're not the only Japanese university doing this.
I have an article coming out on this...hopefully later in the year. Will let you know if/when it appears. |
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