Job Discussion Forums

[meridian]

Hi,

does anyone know--

I was told that by turning in my alien registration card, this cancels any remaining time on my visa, which in turn cancels my residency status. Also, that by filing for non-residency, my visa will become invalid, even if it is not stamped out in my passport.

Can someone confirm this?

Or, is it possible to cancel residency without cancelling the work visa?

thanks

[PAULH]

Let me get this correct

You dont want to live in Japan any more, you want to cancel your residency and you want to hand in your gaijin card but you want to keep your work visa, which be definition is only valid if you live in japan, where you dont wnat to be?

Havent heard this one yet, but if you hand in the gaijin card when you leave the country, dont get a reentry visa, your work visa is canceled if you re-enter the country. No work visa, you cant work or live here.

Two questions:

why do you want to cancel residency but keep a work visa ?

why do you wnat to give back your gaijin card?

[meridian]

Hi Paul, I think you actually answered my post on the other forum as well-

so what happened was, I finished working a year in Japan and left without handing in my card. But I've been paying into the pension plan, and in order to claim the pension refund (which is quite a bit of money), I have to NOT have residency in Japan. So that is why I want to return the card.

Since I was supposed to hand in the card at the airport upon leaving, and didn't, I've been advised to send it by mail to the airport with a copy of my passport and letter explaining the circumstances- but I'm a bit nervous because I'm getting the impression that it's in some grey area where maybe they are not really supposed to do it.

So I'm asking about the work visa, mainly because I just don't want to complicate things by sending them more info or asking for things that I don't really need- One person told me I needed to also send proof of not working there anymore and ask for them to cancel my work visa/ another person said it wasn't necessary.

I currently have a 3 year work visa with 3 year re-entry permit. So I was also just wondering how it works- I didn't think that work visa was necessarily tied to alien registration card, and that cancelling card in turn cancels out the visa? I may return to Japan within that time (also as an Instructor) - it seemed to me that I should be able to work on the same visa? But maybe I'm wrong.

[PAULH]

[meridian]

Thanks for the information.

This has nothing to do with "having a cake and eating it too,"
I'm just in need of some objective advice and a better understanding of how the system works.

And honestly I'm still a bit confused. What do you mean, by "have it both ways?" Since I dont know if I will come back or not, I figured I should just get the pension money out now. I guess, if I went to work again, I would probably be enrolled in the pension plan again- but it's not like this changes the amount of money I'm getting back. It seems to me just a matter of timing and unknowns- so -in turn, I don't really understand what problem immigration officials would have with me leaving Japan, cancelling residency and claiming my pension refund, but since I have re-entry permit and visa (assuming I came back when they were still valid), going back to work, later if I decided to do so.

It seems like there is some missing piece of the puzzle that I am ignorant about, but I still don't know what it is. Is the visa SUPPOSED to be cancelled when one cancels residency? Or is the visa something independent of that?

[PAULH]

Meridian, let me fill in the pieces for you.

If you are paying into a Japanese pension fund (like I am to the tune of about 40,000 yen a month as well as helath insurance) I would have to stay in Japan for 25 years to actually collect my pension from the government. The payments each month have to be consecutive and continous for 25 years. If I go back to my country and still want to get a pension i would have to keep paying into a Japanese bank account even though I live overseas. Seeing as most JET teachers are working for a government sponsored organisation for a 3 year period, there is no expectation they will be here for 25 years, yet it is taken out of their salary, and they have no choice. JETS complained because they had to pay 20,000 yen a month for the pension with no chance of collecting, so about 5 years ago the government said that if you leave Japan, return to your country, you can claim back what you paid in premiums based on how long you had paid in. If you had worked 3 years you get back about 900,000 yen.
Howvere you must have left Japan to collect this.

For example I work at a national university and at the end of my contract my school will pay my repatriation expenses and plane fare once my contract expires. Once I go back to New Zealand I can claim up to 3 years of pension. if i pay in for 10 years, i only get back the first 3 years so in many ways it is unfair but that is the law as it stands. Otherwise to collect I have to pay in for 25 years to get any money back. Im not sure, but i think if you collect the pension you would have to start at the beginning again and the first years you paid in would not count as part of your 25 years. Either you pay into the pension fund continuously for 25 years or leave the country and get your refund, you cant have both pension repaid to you and then come back to Japan and work.

You may have to show the authorities that you have permanently returned to your country before they will refund it to you- if you have a reentry visa, and a valid work visa this may be very hard to prove.

The pension is not a savings pplan for foreigners but provides for Japanese in their old age- becuase of political pressure they created this loophole to allow foreigners to collect if they went back to their own countries. Howvere to hang onto your work visa, reentry visa AND collect your pension is abuse of the pension system and having it both ways.

Anyway as a means of investment, there are better ways to invest your money and make money on it than putting it back into the Japanese pension system but thats another story.

[PAULH]

PS

Im not sure what you mean by cancel residency. If you have a valid work visa and a re-entry permit it means you are still resident in japan and plan to live here. I had an american friend who just spent 6 months living in Australia because of health problems though he ha sa PR visa. he is still a japanese resident. Im not sure exactly what there is to cancel, as all you are is a number or file on some computer in the immigration files or at your city office. What is there to quit when you cancel residency? Do you simply become a 'non-person'? I have never heard of immigration cancelling visas unless it was obtained fraudulently in the first place, or you commit a crime requiring imprisonment and then they boot you out of the country. Either that or you get hit by a truck and die.

You may not be living here when you go back home but in the eyes of officialdom you are still a resident as long as you have a gaijin card and a re-entry visa. Thats my understanding anyway.

[PAULH]

HERE IS A PAGE THAT MAY SHED SOME LIGHT ON THE PENSION ISSUE:

http://www.kyoto-su.ac.jp/~trobb/pension.html

HOPE THIS HELPS

PAUL

[meridian]

Hmmm....this is interesting. I'm still a bit foggy as it's a lot of info to take in, but I maybe it was silly to expect a simple answer when dealing with japanese bureaucracy..?...

anyways, I'll go check out that website. thanks for the info.

[PAULH]

MERIDIAN

I HAVE CHECKED A WEBSITE AGAIN AND THERE ARE A COUPLE OF FACTORS YOU NEED TO BE AWARE OF

YOU MUST CLAIM THE PENSION REFUND WITHING TWO YEARS AFTER LEAVING JAPAN. YOU MAY BE ASKED TO CONTACT THE TAX OFFICE IN THE AREA YOU WILL LIVING AS WELL IF YOU WANT TO CLAIM THE TAX BACK. I THINK IF YOU HAVE A RE ENTRY VISA AND A WORK VISA THIS WILL BE PROBLEMATIC, CONSIDERING THEY WILL TAX YOU 20%. IF YOU CLAIM THE REFUND AND COME BACK TO JAPAN THIS AMOUNTS TO TAX EVASION AND FRAUD, BECAUSE YOU DIDNT PAY INTO THE FUND FOR 25 YEARS, NO DID YOU PAY TAX ON IT FOR PULLING OUT EARLY.


IF YOU CLAIM THE REFUND THEY WILL CHARGE YOU 20% TAX ON THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF MONEY REFUNDED TO YOU BUT YOU CAN CLAIM THIS BACK.
IT ALSO SAYS YOU MUST HAVE 'CANCELLED7 YOUR REGISTRATION' AND NO LONGER BE RESIDENT IN JAPAN. IM NOT SURE HOW YOU WOULD DO THIS- BEST ADVICE IS TO CONTACT THE IMMIGRATION AUTHORITIES IN THE AREA YOU WERE LIVING.

Pension & Tax Refund

Pension Refund

Lump-sum Withdrawal Payment - Dattai Ichijikin

The information below is based on a pamphlet distributed by the Social Insurance Agency and has been adapted for JET Programme Participants.

The Pension Reform Bill was promulgated on November 9, 1994 so that a Lump-sum Withdrawal Payment (pension refund) can be granted on request to those who have enrolled in Japanese public pension schemes. In order to be considered for the Lump-sum Withdrawal Payment, you must fulfill all the following four conditions and apply within two years of leaving Japan.

1. Persons who do not possess Japanese citizenship.
2. Persons who have paid Employees' Pension Insurance premiums for six months or more.
3. Persons who do not have a place of residence in Japan (only those who cancelled their alien registration on or after November 9, 1994 and then left Japan).
4. Persons who have never qualified for pension benefits (including Disability Allowance).


Amount Refunded

Those who have been insured under the Employees' Pension Insurance (kosei nenkin) shall be granted an amount by multiplying the average standard monthly remuneration with the rates shown in the following table according to the insured period.

For example, if a JET completes a one-year contract and paid 12 months' worth of pension payment, the JET will receive 80% of one month's remuneration or \240,000.* If a JET renews and completes two years on the Programme and makes 24 months' payment, the JET will be eligible to receive 160% of one month's remuneration or \480,000. Please note an automatic 20% income tax will be withheld from the Lump-sum Withdrawal Payment. ALTs and CIRs who arrived after the main July, August or April orientations will not complete a full 12 months' contribution in their first year and thus may receive a lesser amount of Lump-sum Withdrawal Payment than those participants who arrive in the main orientations mentioned above.

[PAULH]

meridian

I have scoured the relevant websites and can not find any information for someone in your case, who still has a valid work visa, a re-entry permit and wants to claim their pension back yet at the same time, keep open the possibility of working in Japan with their pension paid back to them. As I mentioned before, the tax authorities will take out a 20% tax on your refund which you can claim back. they have safeguards in place to prevent abuse of the system which includes cancelling registration, handing in your gaijing card, keeping a reentry visa.

FWIW I found the following address you may wnat to contact, as well as immigration and thr tax offcie if you want to get a refund of your taxes. But you will have to jump through the hoops first and cancel your registration, but this may be difficult if you have a renetry visa on you.

dealing with any bureaucracy is never simple, especially when its in a foreign country and a foreign language, but if you paly by the book and have all the paper work in place, there shouldnt be any problems, by working both sides of the street as it were, you simply create problems for yourself and the respective authorities.
In order to claim the benefit, you must attach the following documents with your application:

1. Your Pension Book - the blue or orange one you received a few weeks after arriving in Japan.
2. Passport Photocopies - a photocopy of your passport (pages showing your name, date of birth, nationality, signature, and the date of departure from Japan)
3. Bank Information - a document verifying the name of your bank, name of the branch office, address of your branch and your bank account number in your name (the Social Insurance Agency requires that you specify a bank overseas and that the account be in your name).

You must mail the application from outside Japan, once you have left the JET Programme and Japan. Information from alumni last year suggests it took anywhere from three to six months for the refund to be deposited, provided the application was in order.

Two final reminders: firstly, neither CLAIR nor the Social Insurance Operation Center listed below has the claim forms. You must get these from your local Social Insurance Office (Shakai Hoken Jimusho). Secondly, CLAIR is not responsible for the decisions made by the Social Insurance Agency, which administers the partial refund. We cannot check on individual claims. Also, be aware that this partial refund is not connected to the JET Programme, but rather is applicable to any non-Japanese citizen who has paid in the pension scheme for six months or more. Inquiries may be made in writing (in English or Japanese) to the following address:

Social Insurance Operation Center
3-5-24 Takaido Nishi
Suginami-ku, Tokyo-to 168-8505 JAPAN

As of April 1st, 2003, the Ministry of Health, Labour and Welfare has introduced new changes to the cost for pension premiums and the rate of pension refund amount. Information regarding these new changes was sent to all Host Prefectures/Designated Cities in a document entitled "National Health Insurance and Employees' Pension Insurance" on February 24th. Please ask your Contracting Organisation for this information.



Tax Refund on Pension Refund



JETs who successfully claim the Lump-sum Withdrawal Payment for the National Pension and Employees' Pension Insurance will have that refund subject to a 20% flat rate tax, but may qualify to receive a full refund of that amount.

Application for the refund due to Alternative Taxation

1. Designate a Person to File Your Tax Paperwork
Before leaving Japan, get a Nozeikanrinin no todokesho (gaikokujin-yo)[Declaration Naming a Person to Administer the Taxpayer's Tax Affairs (For use by aliens)] form, appoint a tax representative and submit the form to your local tax office (in the jurisdiction where your residence is located). The Tax Representative must be a resident of Japan.

2. File for the Pension Refund
After leaving Japan, file for the Lump-sum Withdrawal Payment. Once you have received your Lump-sum Withdrawal Payment, send an original (not a copy) of the Shikyu Kettei Tsuchisho [Notice of the Lump-sum Withdrawal Payment (Entitlement)] to your tax representative.

3. Designate a Bank Account for Tax Refund & File for the Tax Refund
Have your tax representative go to the same tax office as before and file the Kakutei Shinkokusho on your behalf. The refund will be deposited into your tax representative's bank account that s/he will designate at the time of filing. S/he will then transfer the money to you.

Note: Application must be made within 5 years after leaving Japan.

You may file for the pension tax refund as soon as you receive your Lump-sum Withdrawal Payment. You do not need to wait until January 1st of the following year in order to file as with other tax refunds. A JET participant receiving an average monthly remuneration of 300,000 yen should receive a full refund of the 20% tax on the Lump-sum Withdrawal Payment. CLAIR does not handle the paperwork for the tax refund, however we are able to answer general questions about it. For further details, please contact the designated tax office where you were a resident in Japan.

[meridian]

Wow, thanks again Paul, for helping me murk through this.

The thing is- maybe I am being dense?- but still, I just don't understand why it is an abuse of the system, to have a visa and re-entry permit, but no job, to not know whether I will go back and work or not, and to get back what I paid into the pension system now? (maybe, is it illegal to hold a work visa for a country you are not currently working in?)

But of course I don't want to abuse anything or do anything illegal. I think I will try again calling the immigration office, today or tomorrow, to get more answers- hopefully I can just find out what official laws they have and abide by it and make the whole thing relatively quick and painless.

Maybe the reason I've gotten so much contradictory advice, from other teachers in Japan and advisors here on what to do now in this situation, is because JETs getting the pension refund is a fairly new thing from what I understand? And it seems it is a rare case when someone accidentally doesn't turn in the gaijin card, like I didn't.

At any rate, I will keep reading- and once I get more info I'll post it here as well.

[PAULH]

Meridian

put yourself in the position of a Japanese person paying into the pension fund. They have to pay in, whether they like it or not, for at least 25 years on a more or less continuous basis during that time. They can have breaks in payment due to financial hardship etc but they will only receive payment of their pension after 25full years of paying premiums, even if it takes them thirty years and when they are in their 70's.

I have read recent reports that the jar will be pension fund will be try in the next ten years (the government uses the money to make highways and Shinkansen lines and 'amakudari' etc) and those paying in now will not see any money when they retire. The pension fund is not a savings fund to be cashed in at will but to support people who can not work any more and have paid in for twenty five years. I have an off shore plan I pay into for my pension and if I cash it in after ten years I have to pay tax on it.

So what you have is JET teachers working here for 3 years, paying into the pension fund and then getting a nice refund check when they return to their own countries.. Many just see the money as a nice bonus when they get back and have no intention of reinvesting it in a pension etc.
Although foreigners including myslef have no choice when you pay into a pesnion plan like this, I think perhaps many Japanese would see the refunds as inherently unfair, in that Japanese can not claim a refund have to pay in for 25 years, yet foreigners can go back home and pick up a refund check when they get back.


I dont think it is illegal to have work visa while you are in your own country- you are quite free to come backwards and forwards as you please between two countries as long as you have a valid work visa and a re-entry permit. I think where they draw the line is allowing you to do that, and also draw on the public purse at the same time. You may consider it to be YOUR money but at the same time the money is paid for out of taxpayer funds- the government at the moment appears to have not enough money to pay everyone' s pensions, but they are still required to pay refunds to foreigners out of tax money. You are entitled to a refund, but they will tax you 20% on it, and the assumption is that you have relocated to your home country on a permanent basis and given up your residency. It is impossible for the government to write a policy for every little contingency or exception that crops up, but i think common sense really just prevails.

[PAULH]

[PAULH]