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PAULH

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan

Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:26 am Post subject: Re: JET vs. others

sallycat wrote:

[off topic, but does anyone else have any info on this "not being paid for three months" thing?

Sounds like an old wives tale blown out of proportion.

Depending on when you arrive you may not get paid in the first month and salary is carried over to the second full pay period. e.,g. you arrive on the fifteenth but the pay period is until the 20th and salaries are paid on the 25th. You wont get paid for 3-4 days but its added onto the following month.

They will lend you money to tide you over if you are short.

I believe NOVA has a policy of paying probation for two full months i.e. a reduced salary. So depending on when you arrive it could be three full months before you see a full pay check.

If NOVA didnt pay salaries for three months you would have all teachers down tools and go on strike as soon as they were not paid the first month. This is a serious violation of Japanese labor law.

Seeker of truth

Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 146

Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 3:07 pm Post subject: Re: JET vs. others

senza_vavoom wrote:

Well, I don't know about you, but I have an M.A. in Political Science and English from U of T. I am also a T.A. and have lived in a few countries when I was younger. I got accepted. So, I am not sure what you mean by the type of people who got in. I found that most of the people who applied at my University actually got in. Were there some " undesirable " people that YOU thought shouldn't have gotten before you?

AEON and NOVA actually rejected me. I told them in detail that I have a lot of teaching experience. I also told them about my degree. But they rejected me...and THANK GOD! I heard that NOVA is involved in huge law suits due to not paying for medical insurance for teachers, not getting paid in 3 mths, students not getting their complimentary lessons when promised etc etc. AEON seems ok, but I have been hearing a lot of horror stories. But then again, horror stories are horror stories for may reasons which lie in the individual applicant themselves. I always went with my motto : BE REALISTIC.

As you say, BE REALISTIC. I had to learn the teaching profession in Japan. So tell me, as a JET, did you teach classes (from elementary school to university level) all by yourself? Did you have to develop your own curriculum and individual lesson plans? I don't mean just once or twice, but for months on end? Did you use the abundent resources to learn Japanese? Did you humble yourself? Did the principal at your school ask you to give a speech on graduation day (in Japanese) and then later ask you personally to come back for another year? Did you find out what it takes to find your own living accommodations? Did you develop a real friendship with a Japanese of the opposite sex?

I never worked for NOVA, thank God. But I was not some pampered brat on the government payroll either. Maybe JET applicants with teaching experience are given priority. However, I now know to tell people working in HR at companies in the West who have since asked me how to evaluate the JET experience. It is merely a wonderful cultural experience.

kdynamic

Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 562
Location: Japan

Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:44 pm Post subject:

Usually I wouldn't get involved in this kind of discussion, but contrary to his/her name, "seeker of truth" is spilling so much misinformation about the JET program that I felt I needed to say something.

This debate is unresolvable because every JETs situation is different. Many DO teach classes alone and do extensive lesson planning. Many don't. Many DO have an indepth, life changing cultural experience and really get something out of it and give something to their communities. Many don't. Same can be said for McKaiwa teachers. It's more about the individual than the program.

Quote:

I never even got an interview with JET, which in retrospect, leads me to seriously question their selection criteria since I already had a masters degree plus other overseas work experience at the time. Also, judging by the quality of some JETs I met while in Japan, I again seriously question their selection criteria. Eventually, one of the others hired me when I applied to them later on.

Sour grapes. They didn't accept you, so the whole program, which has been running for decades and employed tens of thousands of people, must have a broken selection system. Right.

Quote:

Looking back at my experience, I'm actually glad JET didn't get offered to me since I would have accepted it without question. Even though JET would have meant more money and a lot less work, it would have done very little in terms of shaping me into a better teacher.

Some JETs work very hard and go above and beyond, so you don't know it would have been less work. And it's not a shock that JET wouldn't have shaped you into a better teacher, seeing as its main point is not to be teaching program.

Quote:

Even though with others like AEON, where you probably will get screwed in some way, your Japan experience will be much more realistic.

What the heck does a "more realistic experience" mean?? So JETs living daily life in Japan aren't as "real" as English conversation school teachers?? That doesn't even close to make sense.

Quote:

So tell me, as a JET, did you teach classes (from elementary school to university level) all by yourself? Did you have to develop your own curriculum and individual lesson plans? I don't mean just once or twice, but for months on end? Did you use the abundent resources to learn Japanese? Did you humble yourself? Did the principal at your school ask you to give a speech on graduation day (in Japanese) and then later ask you personally to come back for another year? Did you find out what it takes to find your own living accommodations? Did you develop a real friendship with a Japanese of the opposite sex?

LOTS of JETs do all of the things you mentioned. TONS. You obviously know very little about the wide range of experiences JETs have, and I don't understand your misplaced negativity. Perhaps some misguided jealousy or again, sour grapes?

Quote:

I never worked for NOVA, thank God. But I was not some pampered brat on the government payroll either. Maybe JET applicants with teaching experience are given priority. However, I now know to tell people working in HR at companies in the West who have since asked me how to evaluate the JET experience. It is merely a wonderful cultural experience.

Wow. You are utterly ignorant about the JET program, and yet you go on and on about it and are needlesly negative while you're at it. DUH it's a cultural experience first and formost. That is EXACTLY what it bills itself as, and EXACTLY what the government had in mind for the program. So if you got that impression, then good, the program is fulfilling its mission. If you, or anyone, thinks JET is about teaching, you are totally mistaken.

Seeker of truth

Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 146

Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:24 pm Post subject: JET Program

kdynamic wrote:

That's EXACTLY what I said, it's a cultural experience. I've run across enough people who try to make themselves bigger than they are by claiming otherwise.

PAULH

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan

Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 7:16 pm Post subject:

Quote:

So tell me, as a JET, did you teach classes (from elementary school to university level) all by yourself?

I believe JETs teach only junior and senior high school, one or the other and no university classes.

You can teach elementary kids after you have been on three years..

senza_vavoom

Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 25
Location: Toronto

Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 10:41 pm Post subject:

Quote:

But I was not some pampered brat on the government payroll either. Maybe JET applicants with teaching experience are given priority. However, I now know to tell people working in HR at companies in the West who have since asked me how to evaluate the JET experience. It is merely a wonderful cultural experience.

Maybe that's why they DIDN'T HIRE YOU : Your overly sensitive nature, inability to see one's own pomp and arrogance and the inability to spell " abundant " correctly.

kdynamic

Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 562
Location: Japan

Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 3:44 am Post subject:

PAULH wrote:

I believe JETs teach only junior and senior high school, one or the other and no university classes.

You can teach elementary kids after you have been on three years..

That is not true. Many many JETs teach at elementary schools as well. True, to get posted at an elementary school full time you have to switch after three years, but ALL of the JET ALTs in my town have a regular rotation of elementary schools. And it's true that JETs don't teach university classes, but many do teach adult conversation classes with university students, which I don't think is all that different from teaching those same people at a conversation school. The point is you can't generalize about JETs very well because there are 6000 of them and each one has a slightly different job.

PAULH

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan

Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 4:44 am Post subject:

kdynamic wrote:

PAULH wrote:

I believe JETs teach only junior and senior high school, one or the other and no university classes.

You can teach elementary kids after you have been on three years..

Teaching university students is not the same as teaching at a university which is what you implied. That teaching a university student is somehow more difficult because they are not high school students.

You are teaching young adults of university age. what about 19-23 year olds who dont go to university, you teach at NOVA? Why should it matter if they are university students if you are not teaching them at a university, but in a NOVA class? they are just PEOPLE then, who are not teenagers.

You are twisting words. Being a dispatch teacher on a university campus is not the same as being a university teacher either, though some like to think it is and call themselves university teachers while working for ECC.

You are an eikaiwa teacher dispatched to a conversation lounge which happens to be in a university campus. I work full time in a university and teach 40 students at once. BY MYSELF. I dont team teach and the students are mine. Im responsible for grades and passing and failing students. a JET teacher is NOT, and is responsible to the BOE and the Japanese English teacher. You are teaching the JTE's students in his classroom, not yours. You are like a visiting teachers aide on the JET program. JETs can not discipline students or give homework. Students will pass regardless of what the JEY does in class as his classes dont count for academic credit.

50% of JETS do not renew their contracts after the first year and even less make it to three years. the chances of him getting to teach young kids is abou 1 in 5, if that. Your town is not the other 41 prefectures. One town does not represent what happens all over the country.

Have you taught in a private high school, without a JTE standing over you? can you pass or fail students who dont perform or do any work? Can you discipline students? Are you THEIR actuall teacher and not a teaching assistant whos only job is to provide oral instruction and native speaker input?

PAULH

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan

Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 5:09 am Post subject:

kdynamic wrote:

The point is you can't generalize about JETs very well because there are 6000 of them and each one has a slightly different job.

You cant generalise about 6000 JETs but you can generalise about the goals of the program and what they are being paid to do. They are not being paid to teach English and replace the japanese teacher in the classroom. They are not being paid to be qualified certified language teachers as 90% have no training and certification when they go on the program.

From the goals page on http://www.jetprogramme.org

The JET Programme aims to promote internationalisation at the local level by inviting young overseas graduates to assist in international exchange and foreign language education in local governments, boards of education and junior and senior high schools throughout Japan. It seeks to foster ties between Japanese citizens (mainly youth) and JET participants at the person to person level.

As mentioned about JET is a cultural exchange where high school students can meet and interact with foriegners and in the process learn some communication and speaking skills with a native speaker. The JET can not teach them anything if he has not beem trained how and doesnt know anything about language teaching, how young people learn languages, nor do they learn how to work with a qualified, certiffied, experience Japanese educator in his own classroom.

The JET does in the talking in a speaking lesson, because by definition he can speak English. that does not make a JEt a 'teacher' though as the teacher is the one standing at the back of the room supervising them. It is ILLEGAL for JETS to teach classes by themselves with no JTE present so that should tell you how much the schools value the JETs role in the classroom.

kdynamic

Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 562
Location: Japan

Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 8:44 am Post subject:

Paul, are you trying to argue with me or back me up? Because you just made the exact point I was making: JET was not concieved as a teaching endevour, JETs aren't really teachers, and thinking about it from that perspective misses the point of the program.

PAULH

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan

Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 8:48 am Post subject:

kdynamic wrote:

Paul, are you trying to argue with me or back me up? Because you just made the exact point I was making: JET was not concieved as a teaching endevour, JETs aren't really teachers, and thinking about it from that perspective misses the point of the program.

I agree with you entirely, but you get a newbie or a wannabe on here every week for as long as I can remember asking the same question and thinking they are going to 'teach' in Japan and be the same as a qualified high school teacher, and have students eating out of their hands because they are overpaid TA's.

I'm just setting the record straight. It doesnt seem to sink in with most people going on the JET program.

kdynamic

Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 562
Location: Japan

Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:51 pm Post subject:

Ok, then we understand each other on that point. I was also trying to set the record straight by pointing out that while JET isn't about teaching it does NOT mean JETs aren't out there working hard and making a difference in their towns doing what they were brought to do, which is internationize Japan at the grassroots level. Just because JETs aren't "real teachers" doesn't mean they aren't doing good work or aren't qualified for what they are supposed to be doing.

Seeker of truth

Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 146

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 7:10 pm Post subject: generalizations

kdynamic wrote:

Ok, then we understand each other on that point. I was also trying to set the record straight by pointing out that while JET isn't about teaching it does NOT mean JETs aren't out there working hard and making a difference in their towns doing what they were brought to do, which is internationize Japan at the grassroots level. Just because JETs aren't "real teachers" doesn't mean they aren't doing good work or aren't qualified for what they are supposed to be doing.

Are you speaking for all JETs, or just a select few?

kdynamic

Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 562
Location: Japan

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 11:35 pm Post subject: Re: generalizations

Seeker of truth wrote:

Are you speaking for all JETs, or just a select few?

Obviously I can't speak for all JETs. But I know many hardworking JETs who care about their jobs and do good work, and are qualified for what they were hired to do. There are also lots of lazy annoying unqualified JETs too, of course.

Seeker of truth

Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 146

Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 2:17 pm Post subject: Re: generalizations

kdynamic wrote:

There are also lots of lazy annoying unqualified JETs too, of course.

These are the rotten apples I was making reference to earlier who spoil the whole barrel. Of course, you wouldn't possibly be one of them.

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