Job Discussion Forums

[xinpu]

Following on from the popular 'chinese students and not speaking thread' I'd like to get some views on Chinese colleagues and your experience with them.

Usually my interactions with them leave me with the impression that I'll never meet a more unfriendly and inconsiderate bunch of people in my life.

I'm the only FT teaching in a small (12 people) English Department in a Police College in Nanjing. There has only ever been one FT prior to me, a retired career proffesional who (we e-mail one another) had the exact same expereience as me, By all accounts did a good job and was popular with the students (as well as the FAO).

I think I do my job well (if student / teacher feedback is to be believed), always try to be pleasant and outgoing, I''m always willing to join in any activities, I'm learning Chinese and try to speak it with the staff as much as possible, I have Chinese friends outside of the College so I have learnt a fair bit about the local culture and history. In short I don't consider myself a 'bad' FT living in a complete 'laowai' cocoon. I certainly make an effort with my collegues but in return I get NOTHING.

EXAMPLES

Most teachers live on the 'Old' campus and travel to the 'New' campus to teach. This mean we all catch the same bus everyday. When the bus is busy seats are at a premium yet every seat will be taken before anyone would consider sitting next to me. You could say 'take a book' 'listen to your MP3' ...well I do both these things and I still feel like s**t.l

Around campus (old and new) more often than not my colleagues ignore me, avoid eye contact or look through me. At best it's a 'hello' and a chat in Chinese to their mate (THEY are never alone). It's quite obvious and I hate it. I sat on the bus today 12 seats with 4 of my teaching colleagues on it....again not a word.

The only time they speak to me is if they want something - at first believed the 'we are so busy' b/s but it's obvious they are just too busy for ME (as opposed to sleeping / chatting on QQ / MSN). Oh and don't get me started on the 'we are shy and worry about making mistakes' B/S either they are teacher, their english os good and they are police for god's sake!!

What makes it worse was the sycophantic drivel they all came out with at the 'welcome' meeting (leaders present) where they couldn't get their tongues far enough up my arse (leaders leave...they revert to chinese and ignore me...funny that).

Apparently this is common for many Chinese working within Chinese schools and companies (the FAO being a little bit more westernised is also excluded and Chinese friends retell similar stories when they start work at a new place). However they have family, school mates, uni mates etc to hook up with so it's not as critical.

I'm here alone with little chinese ability in a new city and I know no-one. They all know this and still they don't give a s**t - if this was UK / Aus I'd like to think people would make more of an effort. I know I would.

So what's the point of this rant...well I'm going to be here for a while but I can't continue as is. What should i do? give up on having any kind of relationship with them? or is there something I'm doing ??

[KarenB]

I went through this situation in my first teaching position in China. There was a large English teaching staff (about 60), but only about 5 of them would chat with or make friends with the FTs. (Fortunately, at my present school, the other teachers are very warm, even if they don't speak English at all, which is one reason I've stayed here for 4 years).

In my case, I think it really was often a case that their English wasn't good enough. Actually, it was good enough for me to understand them, but in their minds, as "English teachers" any mistakes would cause them to lose face; therefore, they were more afraid to speak that the students were. Even the Dean of the English department was afraid to speak. And I know what you mean about seats on the bus.

Step 1: My suggestion is be be proactive in initiating conversations. Next time you're on the bus (ok, this is probably a 20 minute ride or so?), get up from your seat and go sit by them. Chat with them for a few minutes about something. Maybe have a couple topics in mind (I often find it helpful to ask their advice about a "problem" I'm having having -- say with the students, or something in my daily life --- Chinese love giving advice). Do this everytime you're on the bus, until they get used to chatting with you.

Step 2: Directly ask them to help you do something You say they're "too busy" unless they "need something." Maybe you can turn this around on them. Chinese really do like to help other people -- it may just not have occured to them that you're kindof stranded and it's hard to take care of daily life stuff without knowing Chinese. So, ask one of them if they have time sometime in the next week to help you buy....whatever or do something you need help with.

Step 3: invite them to do something fun with you -- go out to tea, get a beer together, play cards, teach you to play mahjong or whatever.

Good luck!

[xinpu]

Thanks.

Good point about them not realising I need help - I think they assume that ALL foreigners stick together and therefore I MUST know every other foreigner in Nanjing (they've said as much).

Thing is they know how I feel and how they act and admit it's not very friendly (they are quite happy to speak very openly via e-mail but this just doesn't translate to face-to-face communication).

I suspect some are a bit resentfull of my position given that I have the better classes, more able students, lighter workload, higher pay and no b/s Wednesday afternoon meetings.

When I have the chance I will make every effort but it's never reciprocated. Yesterday I sent 2 hours working together on lesson plans with one colleague (and got on well i think) today it was as if I didn't exist.

I think this is just China....they're not really all that friendly to each other either (just for show). Nobody socialises outside of work (as in the West).

I think the main problem is that they are mostly women and hence that's another barrier I have to overcome.

Thanks for the advice...I'll keep going!

[Drizzt]

Well I think how your colleauges treat you is largely dependant on what kind of teaching job you have.

In my first gig, I think there was an unspoken resentment toward the foreign teacher (me) because my salary was quite a bit higher than theirs. Everyone was friendly to me on the outside, but I always sensed it wasn't genuine.

Now, however, I have GREAT colleagues. I teach at a college and I go out with my Chinese colleagues all the time. Maybe it's due to the fact that I'm in Shanghai where there are a lot of laowai, and they are more accustomed to being around foreigners -- I'm not sure. I can honestly say I consider them my friends and vice versa. It's pretty much the opposite relationship I had with my former colleagues.

About all the seats filling up around you first is pretty typical I've found. At least with strangers. For some reason Chinese don't like to sit next to lao wai hehe. I haven't figured it out either myself.

[Malsol]

[Malsol]

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[7969]

[william wallace]

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[Malsol]

[william wallace]

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[Babala]

I had the same experience at the 2nd school I taught at. I was so surprised because the teachers at my first school had been so friendly. I had the same sort of things happen as you. They would squeeze 4 people into one seat so they didn't have to sit with me (when I asked the FAO, he used the excuse that they were afraid I would speak English to them, which by the way, they were English teachers ). They wouldn't even respond when I said hello. It wasn't just the teachers either, the bus driver once refused to let me on the bus. He told me that I was a rich foreigner and I could take a taxi (a 25 RMB taxi ride). I finally just gave up trying with most. There was one teacher who was a little older and she was always nice to me. She came to me once to get me to edit something and I was happy to help her. She even bought me a teapot just to say thanks. As for the rest of them, the only time they talked to me was when they wanted something. I didn't even try to make up excuses. One teacher asked to me 2 hours a week for a friend of his (he was getting a finder's fee). I told him I couldn't as it would eat into my drinking time

[xinpu]

Malsol:

The previous school I was at the teachers certainly fell into the 'poor english - embarrased to communicate' catagory. However this place they are all pretty good and I don't think that's the reason.

I don't think they see any 'value' in being friends, there's nothing in it for them so why should they? If they are assgned the 'task' of being friendly to the FT then perhaps they would make an effort.

For example the FAO (when I spoke aboput this to her) said 'yes but so and so's friendly' as if because one person speaks to me that excuses all the other Chinese stafffrom acting like w**kers.

In their eyes communicating with the FT, if they're not given this task, is someones else's responsibility (i.e nobody's responsibility) so they don't bother.

I don't want to blame them too much, they have a crappy time of it too with the same disinterested and lazy students plus they have to cop a lot more s**t (docked pay for many minor infringements).

Actually I taught in Australia before this and the teachers weren't that friendly there either - maybe it's the solitary nature of the job (most of the time you're in a classroom and the majority of your coversations with other teachers revolve around 'where's the toner' etc) that means close ties are never forged...mebbe just a thought.

[Roger]

[Roger]

My experiences are a tad more varied.
Your experience is one I can relate to, though. As a non-Chinese, one always is aware of how we stick out of the dough like a spoon. I often dare not speak Chinese because of the unmitigated glaring looks I draw upon myself as in a full bus when you have to shout "yaole" to be let off.
Because of the numbers inequality, I just don't think the Chinese feel "embarrassed" to talk with non-Chinese speakers; this is a myth perpetuated by the TESOL and TEFL cert industry barons.

There is, perhaps, something else to it: Chinese are not nearly half as sociable beings as we would expect them to be. Look how they treat each other and you must concur!
You are either one of the same danwei, or a waidiren. If one bears in mind how migrants get disadvantaged (kids pay higher tuition or have no schooling rights, fathers often live with other males in dorms on construction sites thousands of kms away from their family...), one understands the social chasms separating different grpuos.

On the other hand, if you are someone on the INSIDE of a danwei, a gated community or other well-defined group there is a cordiality akin to Mediterranean friendliness.

My FAO, for example, is the most accommodating I have ever had in my career; and in the estate where I live neighbours are the most courteous you can imagine, perhaps especially to this laowai.

But in public spaces anything bad goes such as spitting, littering, being rude etc.

Of course, if those foreign waidiren make more money and do a more lowly job than their own teachers then the personal chemistry is bound to be somewhat poor.

[KarenB]

Ok, Xinpu, if you spent 2 hours helping that lady with lesson plans, then I'd say you've earned some guanxi, and that lady now "owes" you. (unless she brought over some fruit or tea or something like that already)
So, she's free game -- next time YOU need help with something, you can ask her for it, and there you are.

It seems there's a big difference between schools and the dynamic there. You mentioned your co-workers aren't even very friendly with each other. I think you said it was a police school -- maybe there's a lot of political stuff going on.

At my campus, the teachers DO often socialize with each other, and we often all do stuff together (for instance, I'm part of the ladies dance class, and we go walking for exercise together in the evening). I"m assuming you're a guy, so that probably doesn't apply to you, but is there a men's basketball team or volleyball team or something like that at your danwei? Maybe you'd find it helpful to get involved.

I was wondering if you live in the same location as your colleagues? With the gender difference, socializing can be a little trickier, but you might try striking up acquaintances with their spouses. I've found this to be a bit helpful, but sometimes difficult with language barrier.

Roger, I think the point here is that the OP is in the SAME danwei (work unit) but still finding his fellow colleagues aloof.