Job Discussion Forums

[PAULH]

[kdynamic]

I think many JSL learners underestimate how different speech is for different ages, genders, and contexts in Japanese - and how silly you sound when you get it wrong. The only surefire way to point yourself in the right direction is to copy people who are the same age, gender, and rank as you in a given situation. Otherwise, the safest thing to do is stick to neutral, polite Japanese until you know what you're doing with casual speech.

[PAULH]

[PAULH]

[kdynamic]

Yes that's very true Paul. One tricky thing about Japanese is you cannot simply copy the Japanese you hear. For example, if you use the same Japanese to your boss as he uses with you, you will sound rude. If you use the same Japanese with students that they use toward you as a teacher, you will sound like you have no authority. Same with using the Japanese you hear from your girlfriend or boyfriend, host mom, or shop clerks. And, as paul pointed out, even among friends who may appear to you to be your equals (same age and gender), there are probably many subtle distinctions of heirarchy you are not aware of operating all the time that contribute to how people address one another. It's always better to be safe than sorry and stick to more polite and neutral Japanese.

[shuize]

I think I hit "quote" in place of "edit."

Deleted.

[luckyloser700]

[Like a Rolling Stone]

My favourite Japanese is "nomihodai". Definatley not a gay word.

[PAULH]

[quote="luckyloser700"][quote="kdynamic"]

[luckyloser700]

[johanne]

Yep, the differences in Japanese depending on who you are talking too are on of the hardest things to grapple with, IMHO. I'm used to talking to my husband so it's things like "iku zo", but now I have to talk to the Japanese mothers at my daughter's kindergarten and although I would like to chat with them more, I hesitate because I have to make a conscious effort to use polite Japanese and I sound very stilted compared to conversations with my in-laws.

[kdynamic]

[Zzonkmiles]

Regarding the original poster's concern:

Learn both hiragana and katakana. They are both critically important. As other people have mentioned, being able to read katakana will greatly help your understanding of products you see in stores and supermarkets. Also, you'll be surprised at how many Japanese can understand a full English sentence when spoken with katakana pronunciation, even though they can't understand the same sentence when spoken with regular English pronunciation.

Knowing hiragana will allow you to effectively write absolutely every word in Japanese. You would be able to write your address and fill out forms and read some signs. Signs in bigger cities or more conspicuous places may have kanji and romaji, but sometimes there's only kanji and hiragana. Hiragana is often used so that Japanese schoolchildren who have no or limited kanji knowledge are able to read signs, such as those at train stations. You also need to know hiragana, as that's what's used to express certain grammatical elements of written Japanese.

Both katanana and hiragana go hand in hand. Learn them both. It shouldn't take more than a week to master them.

As for J-girlfriends and learning Japanese from them, I too am married to a Japanese. My Japanese is at an intermediate level, and my wife's English ability is at a low-advanced level. So we are able to effectively communicate in both languages. But since English is the stronger language for us collectively, we speak in English more often. However, I made it a rule with her to designate at least two days each week to only speaking Japanese. We chose Sunday and Wednesday in our case. But whether we speak in English or speak in Japanese, the emphasis is on communication, rather than teaching the language or language exchange. Occasionally I may have a question about a kanji or an expression, as may she, but our relationship would suffer and seem a bit too utilitarian if every other sentence was "Is my pronunciation okay?" or "How do you say X in English?" I am lucky in that I get to practice my Japanese everyday at work, since I'm the only foreigner there. So it balances itself out nicely for us.

It is my opinion that guys who can't speak Japanese really get taken advantage of by Japanese women who milk them for free English practice under the guise of a relationship. If you are serious about learning Japanese, either study it by yourself seriously (which is what I did) or take lessons from a qualified teacher. You'll learn far more Japanese by sitting in a bar for 3 hours where you're the only foreigner there than you ever will with your Japanese girlfriend who only teaches you token tidbits of Japanese, such as "sugoi" and "oishii" and "arigatou."

[Zzonkmiles]

Oh, and no Japanese person will ever expect you truly understand Japanese and its related nuances. So just relax and see what works and what doesn't when you talk to people. You can't go wrong with learning the plain forms and polite forms and then picking up the slang versions of them as you go. For a beginner, I think being able to say ikimasu, iku, ikimasen, and ikanai are more than sufficient. Worrying about iku wa, iku zo, and iku ze are not really worth it at such a low level. Being able to use the plain and polite forms of 10 verbs properly is far more useful than being able to use 5 different slang or casual forms of only 2 verbs.

[Lynn]

Learn katakana then hiragana.

Don't worry about picking up your girlfriend's way of speaking. Of course neutral is the goal, but saying Watashi sounds better than a foreign man who doesn't speak Jpes well saying "ore" or something. My Japanese friends say they like the way foreign men speak Japanese because it sounds, "yasashii".

A poll was taken amongst young school girls. The number one quality Japanese girls wanted in their future husband was "yasashii". Among Mexican school girls it was bravery.