Job Discussion Forums

[Henry_Cowell]

[Spinoza]

[Konstansis]

Really surprising. As just about the ONLY type of music popular to chinese people who i've met is of the sickening fairy tale love song variety I thought they would be clingy, ultra ready to committ and totally, um, love struck and stuff!

[Jared]

[Aramas]

People that want to move to another country are quite unusual. Even people that just want to move to another village, town or city are unusual. Some might occasionally say that they want to leave, but most never actually would. The sad fact is that they just don't have the courage. More than 90% of the world's population die within 100 km of where they were born, and don't wander far in between.

Generally meeting people in bars and such is not a particularly discerning way of striking up relationships, and regardless of which country you happen to be in you're likely to meet all kind of weirdos, scammers, losers and nutters. Some of the nicest schizophrenics, obsessives, alcoholics, junkies, whores, petty criminals, drama queens, emotional vampires and queen bees that I've ever (unknowingly) met were women that I struck up relationships with in bars. Meeting people through mutual friends seems to be nature's way of separating the wheat from the chaff. At least that way you can get the background story and have some idea of what you're getting into. Being in a different culture makes it harder to understand what's going on, but it's the same game

Edited to be less grumpy

[Travel Zen]

[Canadian_Krista]

Sounds like most of these are about Western guys finding girls overseas. Any women have advice about dating men overseas? I'd be interested in hearing about that!

[mick_luna]

OK, so i'm hearing mixed messages about China and the Philippines. Where in the latter country is good? can you work there as an ESL teacher? i heard its hard to work there, but fairly cheap to visit. how does it compare to Thailand?

as a liberal, artsy guy, i have always been interested in Thailand, outside of Bangkok or other tourist areas. Buddhism and the good time philosophy of the Thais is a more appealing concept than Catholic Philippines. That said, Brazil is Catholic too, and i never met nicer women (outside of the Solomon Islands)

i'm told that university girls in china are cool, its the rural ones who aren't.
i certainly don't want to go anywhere like hanoi again, that conservative scene and rampant prostitution thing weren't cool at all.

anyone have good experiences in china? i am told japan is a great dating scene, i just think it may be tricky to survive or work there without a degree.

also tricky is bringing in a girl from another country back to canada or wherever. i would be married by now if that were easier. the canadian government asks for a lot of **** up front, like proof of ten thousand dollars in the bank, funds to support her for however many years her papers take to get, etc.

Also, this thing about girls wanting a passport and ticket to the Big Easy in N. America - I haven't experienced that. maybe if you hang out in certain types of bars, with certain types of girls. i don't know. certainly if you flash a lot of money around and look like you can provide a cushy lifestyle, but you might hook up with a gold digger anywhere.

i've heard of guys marrying CUban, Russian or Filipino girls, who then divorce them after the papers come thru and take their house. The Cuban one discovered grocery stores, and ballooned up to over 200 pounds, which i think precipitated that divorce.

Anyhoo, some caveat emptor thoughts to ponder.

[mick_luna]

OK, so i'm hearing mixed messages about China and the Philippines. Where in the latter country is good? can you work there as an ESL teacher? i heard its hard to work there, but fairly cheap to visit. how does it compare to Thailand?

as a liberal, artsy guy, i have always been interested in Thailand, outside of Bangkok or other tourist areas. Buddhism and the good time philosophy of the Thais is a more appealing concept than Catholic Philippines. That said, Brazil is Catholic too, and i never met nicer women (outside of the Solomon Islands)

i'm told that university girls in china are cool, its the rural ones who aren't.
i certainly don't want to go anywhere like hanoi again, that conservative scene and rampant prostitution thing weren't cool at all.

anyone have good experiences in china? i am told japan is a great dating scene, i just think it may be tricky to survive or work there without a degree.

also tricky is bringing in a girl from another country back to canada or wherever. i would be married by now if that were easier. the canadian government asks for a lot of **** up front, like proof of ten thousand dollars in the bank, funds to support her for however many years her papers take to get, etc.

Also, this thing about girls wanting a passport and ticket to the Big Easy in N. America - I haven't experienced that. maybe if you hang out in certain types of bars, with certain types of girls. i don't know. certainly if you flash a lot of money around and look like you can provide a cushy lifestyle, but you might hook up with a gold digger anywhere.

i've heard of guys marrying CUban, Russian or Filipino girls, who then divorce them after the papers come thru and take their house. The Cuban one discovered grocery stores, and ballooned up to over 200 pounds, which i think precipitated that divorce.

Anyhoo, some caveat emptor thoughts to ponder.

[DistantRelative]

I can't comment as to other Asian countries because I haven't spent any time there, but with regards to China and the dating climate here IMO and experience it's been absolutely awesome. Even when you consider the fact that somewhere around 80% or better of potential dates are eliminated due to the issues with communication it's still a great country to meet sincere, interesting, and honest eligible bachelorettes. In my personal opinion one is a lot less likely to find green card hunters here in China then any former Soviet Bloc countries.
The gal Im currently dating is a total sweetheart. She's 10 years younger then me (not uncommon at all for a woman to date a man a bit older then herself here). I'm 48 so you do the math. She's cuter then a bugs ear with a personality to match. She has her own job, kinda lives at home (generally spends about 4 nights a week with me) where she takes care of her aging parents. She keeps my apartment spotless, cooks for me on occasion (prefers my western cooking though), insists on doing all my laundry and ironing and in short is simply a total joy to be around. She's never asked me for a friggin dime and has in fact on numerous occasions spent money on me. She often buys groceries or brings a bucket of chicken when she comes. She also has made utility payments on the apartment. Sound like the perfect babe? She's about as close as one can come.
One of the things I like best about her is up to this point she's expressed absolutely no desire to relocate to the states. At least not before her parents pass on. It's been discussed and she's said she'd go for a visit but would want to return to China.

It's my personal opinion that the majority of women in China are similar and have similar attitudes about hunting up a green card. Are they curious, would they like to visit? Absolutely, but IMO there is no overwhelming desire to make it permanent.
Prior to meeting this girl I dated a few other girls and although not to the same degree the experiences were similar.
In the time I've been here I've grown to really appreciate Chinese women. Most take extremely good care of themselves. They look good and dress well. I'll be honest, I'm not an individual that's attracted to big breasted women, and instead much prefer a nice set of legs and a cute butt. I'm also attracted to the long beautiful black hair. Honestly If your're tastes are similar to mine, in China, it's like being a kid in a candy store.

I certainly don't mean to offend anyone (hehe just kidding!! I don't really much give a rip who gets offended !!) but hell as long as were being honest here and for the sake of making you well informed we might as well discuss what I call the pink houses. You know Brothels. It's been my experience that they are readliy available in most any city or town of any size here in China. Most of the girls are pretty decent and seem to take reasonably good care of themselves. The prices are cheap and you will wear a condom. I'll admit to having used them on a number of occasions while between relationships. You go out with the buds, have a few beers, nothing happening, feeling the need, go deal with it. No muss, no fuss. I actually established a repoire with a place not far from my home that allowed me to pick a gal and rather then take care of business there, bring her to my place and enjoy the experience in the comfort of my own bed. I've got another buddy that's got it even better. He doesn't have to leave home. Just makes a phone call and within a half an hour he gets a knock at the door (He's actually had em show up with a friend in tow and lived out a fantasy many of us have had in doing a three-some). Some prudes may be extremely put-off by the notion, but personally I think it's a more honorable option then playing games and using some local girl that has to live with the consequences when you decide to cut and run and move on to your next conquest.
Anyway IMO Chinese women and the dating experience here rate a definite 2 thumbs (or other appropriate body part) up.

Zhuhao !!!

[mick_luna]

thanks for that, Distant Relative.

Well, i can't say i have ever found the professional girls to be a satisfying experience, one can end up feeling more lonely afterwards than before.

As for the normal girls, it sounds like China might be quite different from Vietnam in its attitude to foreigners. it doesn't sound like there are the extreme social sanctions against women who marry or go out with foreigners.

in Vietnam, it happens, but the girl has to be getting someone who can offer her a much better lifestyle than what she has, and security, as she will probably lose most of her vietnamese friends and family. Also, there is probably a smaller percentage of the pop. that speaks English than in China. I would like to learn some Cantonese/Mandarin, but Vietnamese is limited in its usefulness and very difficult, there are six tones. i understand Chinese has four tones?

would you recommend your city? are you teaching there? are there any artistic/cultural communities you're aware of? besides ESL, i'm a graphic artist/writer, and did some work for the Vietnam Investment Review when i was there.
cheers
Mick
www.portfolios.com/exotica

[TEAM_PAPUA]

I miss Chinese girls but there is a lot to say for these exotic Indonesian gals

[DistantRelative]

Mick with regards to satisfying or not I suppose thats subjective and depends on each of our individual experiences and what we hope to get out of it. Although I'm probably going to be fodder for a number of negative posts I'm going to relay an experience I had. I actually fell pretty much head-over-heals for a gal I met in a pink house. I was working in a reasonably small city with extremely limited exposure to westerners. A Chinese buddy of mine took me there after having spent time partying at the disco one night. In the interest of making a long story short while there I met this gal and was immediately taken by her stunning body and cute face. Her English was pretty much non-existent but we managed to get to know one another a bit using an interpreter. Of course we did the deed that night and she seemed exceptionally pleased with the experience, as did I(apparently I was not only the first Laowai she had ever done, I was the first Laowai she had ever spoken to in any language). In the next week we saw each other 3 or 4 different times. Each time away from her place of work. I would also add that after the first night she refused to take any money from me. I knew at the end of the week I would be leaving and not returning. I'd already made the decision not to re-up with this particular school and was heading down south to enjoy a month and half vacation and look for work. We ended up having a long talk and I asked her if she would like to come down and spend some more time together. She agreed and about 10 days later arrived where I was staying. We spent about a week together and using a dictionary and friends we continued to get to know one another. After a week and a half she headed back north but not before having decided we would be seeing each other again. She was going to move to the city I would be working in and would stay with me. We also agreed that other than to gather her things she wouldn't be returning to her former line of work. The fact is I no longer cared what she had done prior to meeting me(Brings to mind the movie "Memoirs of a Geisha).
I stayed a couple more weeks on vacation. Right toward the end the one Chinese buddy of mine whom we had been using to help us manage phone communication receives a call from a man who told him in no uncertain terms that the Laowai would no longer be communicating with this young lady. So who was the man? Turns out it was her older brother and he was the one calling all the shots for the family. He threatened my buddy and scared him to the point where he didn't want to have anything more to do with her or the situation. Apparently what older brother decided to do was bring her back to her hometown and marry her off to some local business man that probably was unaware of what she had been doing prior to said arraigned marriage as she was doing it far from her home. In any case I've never seen her again. Pity, I was real fond of her. I believe he had her phone number disconnected and confiscated her Sim card.
I have grown to understand the reality of the situation here in China. Many of these women are just doing what they have to do in order to survive and contribute income to a poor family. In this case the brother knew exactly what she was doing and condoned it. Many of the girls in the smaller cities who come down to give you "massages" at the hotels are in similar situations. They come in from the countryside spend time working at the hotel and then return home with their earnings. As far as the big city girls go? The reality is that many have boyfriends that are fully aware of what their honey does and in fact leech off them. Bottom line for me is it's China, who am I to judge? Many of you might be of the opinion that I'm a real scum bag and am contributing to the problem by using their services. I'd love to hear any thoughts and opinions.

Zhuhao

[mick_luna]

It sounds like you had a good experience overall Distant Relative, i wonder if that's common? i would imagine it is the rarity. also, seems to underline similarities with Vietnam, i.e. the girl is an exploitable resource for the patriarchal family, and foreign devils are considered the lowest life form. I understand that a lot of Chinese girls don't feel that way, as your girlfriends attest to, but the men seem to enforce the xenophobic ethos. that may be rurul versus urban as well, i understand urban attitudes are becoming a lot more hip and cosmopolitan.

ANy advice about good cities to come to, for a Canadian freelance graphic artist, journalist and ESL teacher in his mid thirties? sans degree, but loads of experience overseas.
cheers
Mick

[sidjameson]

Nice post DR. I never went with prostitutes when I lived in Indonesia, but can really relate to your story. It really did my head in. That experience of seemingly really making a girl happy for a short time, after a life time of hardship and the inevitable return to it. Is she better of having had the experience? I never could answer that. She will no doubt have a life of drudgery ahead of her and my guess would be that in five years time you wouldnt even turn in her general direction, such is the fast decline of such girls who end up in such marriages. Yet.....for a brief time an uneducated girl from the rice fields and a university educated man from the west made a real connection.
At the end of the day though.....that was her one chance of a life in the sun. For you just another vacation. Life is not fair.

Oh just can't help myself........what is the going rate for a girl in a small town in China?