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Cdaniels · Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:55 pm Post subject: etymology is 'gyp'

Gyp originated from a slur against gypsies, but the term, 'gypsy,' came from the mistaken notion that "gypsies" originally came from Egypt, and can be considered a slur in itself.
In English "gypsy" can refer to: any community of nomadic people; Roma people, an ethnic group in Southern and Eastern Europe, Western Asia and the Middle East; the Romani language; Sinti, a Roma people in Germany, Austria, Italy, etc., also known as Zigeuner or Zingari; Gitanos, a Roma people in Spain, Portugal, and southern France + Cal� (Spanish Romani), a jargon spoken by the Gitanos; Irish Travellers, the Pavee, a nomadic people living in Ireland, Great Britain and the United States or the Moken, the Sea Gypsies of Southeast Asia.
It seems a bit of a stretch to therefore claim "gyp" is a slur.
Wink

cwc · Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 372

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

Indio and Indian, I thought, were less of a slur and more about 1500's poor navigation skills.

What happened to the dentist thread? Inquiring teeth wanna know.

Ben Round de Bloc · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1946

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

Hope she left a few pesos behind...cause if not, it would be a real 'gyp'. Wink

M@tt · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 473 Location: here and there

i feel kind of strange about this word. i grew up using it and nobody had any clue what gypsies were, nor that the word had any relation. i was really disappointed later when i found out that it came from "gypsy" and i wasn't supposed to use it. not because i had something against "the gypsies," just because it felt like someone had suddenly added much more meaning to the word than i or anyone i knew ever intended when we used it. by the way, i always saw it spelled gip, so the connection to gypsies was not obvious at all.
to me, it's much less objectionable than using the word "jew" as a verb because that's the same word as Jew, and there are also Jews all about in the US, so the slur-factor is quite direct and obvious.

i'm sure there are plenty of words we use in english that have unsavory origins, without realizing where they came from. who thinks about gypsies in the US? where i grew up, nobody. it is not considered a slur because it is not thought of in connection to gypsies. so, at what point does it become another word? or if you are using a word that comes from another word, but you are using it in a different way, not as a racial slur at all, then is it even a slur?

i wonder whether those people (not sure what to call them) would give a crap if they knew about this debate?

M@tt · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 473 Location: here and there

by the way, where in the name of zeus's forehead did this thread come from?

cwc · Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 372

Samantha · Joined: 25 Oct 2003 Posts: 2038 Location: Mexican Riviera

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

Most improbably, it all started with a bad trip to the dentist. Honest ingun.

samizinha · Joined: 12 May 2005 Posts: 174 Location: Vacalandia

The basic story was that I got ripped off at the dentists office, and wondered if my experience was common here (it wasn't). I had put off going to the dentist for so long, but since I found the sketchy dentist, all I want to do is go to good one who will tell me that I get to keep my teeth, jeje.
As for the war of words-
We once discussed these phrases and sayings in one of my university classes in Toronto. Students were asked to come up with sayings that refered to white people- they listed words like honky, wigger, trailer trash, Betty Crocker. The class couldn't stop laughing.
When they started naming the words for other minorities, nobody laughed. I've seen more than one friend cry when someobody has called them a FOB, Oreo, crazy or retarded. Those words don't mean a lot to me personally, but they're loaded for somebody else. Gyp included.
Canadians definately tend to stay on the PC side of the fence, and since words can hurt, I'm always happy to switch my vocabulary around a little bit.

Cdaniels · Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:43 pm Post subject: Mexican Dentists

cwc · Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 372

Fatcat · Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 92 Location: Athens, Georgia

This article has some similarities to where this thread is going.

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/stories/0413tiger.html

I know now that this term is obviously offensive to some people, but I've used it and heard it all my life and would have never thought it was derogatory to people with disabilities. Like the definition quoted in the article I've always thought it was someone who was clumsy or awkward. Nothing to do with a physical handicap. I'm sure Tiger is in the same boat.
"I don't think he meant to be that offensive but it is something which nobody in his position should be saying," How is he to know in the first place that it's derogatory?

My question is, do you think he should apologize for his ignorance of its meaning across the ocean? If so, how does one reserach every word in his vocabulary to see who it may or may not offend?

Where do you draw the line in telling someone they're offensive or just uninformed of all the meanings of a word? I think he should have just been told "Hey, this means such and such in this place and maybe you shouldn't use it again" instead of being labeled "extremely insensitive."

Let the comments pour in...

samizinha · Joined: 12 May 2005 Posts: 174 Location: Vacalandia

It's really interesting that you brought up this article and the tension behind words describing (currently or historically) people with disabilities. I'm just finishing my thesis for a masters in Critical Disability Studies, so this is right up my alley.
First, I think you can only be as sensitive as you can be, but if somebody points out how your words could be offensive, you should knock it off and be conscious in the future.
I hear a lot of people casually using the word "retarded" which I'm pretty sure they know has historical conotations for people with intellectual disabilities. "Spaz" used to refer to seizures, and people with epilepsy were socially stigmatized because of this. It still happens today, therefore reinforcing the stigma. Another word that I don't use anymore because it is often offensive to people with psychiatric disabilities is "crazy".
The article almost made me laugh- it was highlighting how this American had been offensive on their side of the pond, but there there were a couple of things in the article that would be offensive to people in Canada and the States! For example, they criticized Wood's use of "spaz", saying the comments were "a bit stupid" (stupid, offensive). Furthermore, they use the term "disabled people" which is offensive and inappropriate on this side of the Atlantic, where the term is "people with disabilities".
However, I'll take either of the above over what I've heard in Mexico, which includes "the incapacitated", "the less valid", and "mongoloids"