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Keith_Alan_W
Joined: 26 Mar 2006
Posts: 121
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 Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:25 am Post subject: |
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Hi all 
You'll be dissapointed to hear, I'm still in Japan. Stupid Lufthansa tried to charge me 990 Euro to put my bags on the plane, the same ones I put on in Germany for free. So I told them off, went behind the counter, grabed my bags, and left them standing there in a stupor. So, since I'm not on my way to Germany, and instead I'm stuck in this overly expensive country, I'll probably never make it to the Middle East. Pitty though, the wages are very good there, 3500 Euro per month in University positions and no taxes.
Well, that's that.
Heading to Van tomorrow.
Ciao
Last edited by Keith_Alan_W on Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:53 am; edited 1 time in total |
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kdynamic
Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 562
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:29 am Post subject: |
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| Ok that right there proves it: Keith is a troll. |
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shuize
Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 1270
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| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:47 am Post subject: |
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| kdynamic wrote: |
| Ok that right there proves it: Keith is a troll. |
I had my doubts.
But he's definitely more entertaining than the average troll. |
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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
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| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:03 am Post subject: |
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| There are already possibly as many English speakers in India as in all the native English speaking countries of the world! |
You're round the twist. A lot depends on exactly how you define native speaker, but the population of native English speakers in India is somewhere between that of New Zealand and that of Australia.
Have you ever been to India? Go to the bus station in Mumbai and see how many of the people there can have a conversation with you in English about politics, or cricket or their family or the economy, or all the other things they can talk about for hours in their native language. What proportion will you find? One in ten? One in a hundred? Then remember that two-thirds of the population in India lives in villages where the perentage of native speakers of English is zero, so take whatever percentage you have and divide it by three.
As for China there probably aren't enough home-produced native English speakers to staff the faculty at the universities.
And finally there are probably more native speakers of English of Indian or Chinese origin in America, Canada, the US, the UK and Australia as all of the second generation immigrants will be speaking the English variety of their country of adoption, not their parents country of origin. |
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abufletcher
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 779
Location: Shikoku Japan (for now)
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| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| Keith_Alan_W wrote: |
| the wages are very good there, 3500 Euro per month in University positions and no taxes. |
Your info on the Middle East seems no better than your info on Japan (which has got to make people wonder about your info on Germany as well). While university professors (i.e. Ph.D. holders teaching subject matter courses) may earn this sort of salary. Most university EFL positions anywhere in the Gulf don't pay more than about half that and would require an MA in TESOL or Linguistics. BA holders need not bother to apply for university positions in the Gulf.
They are still pretty good gigs but nowhere near the sum you quote and no closer to being goldmines than jobs here in Japan. |
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Keith_Alan_W
Joined: 26 Mar 2006
Posts: 121
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| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:39 am Post subject: |
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Here's a job posting for Abu Dhabi. They sent me the salary info, but I don't have it at the moment. All I can remember is that it was more than the TU Dresden's Amerikanistic department's salary of 3500 Euro per month, at least 4000 Euro. (577,891.94 JPY or 5,605.29 CAD)
You guys want to apply, go ahead. Here's the link:
http://www.adu.ac.ae/careers-at-adu-current-vacancies-CV.htm
I found 8 more very similar positions. Read the ad carefully, see any difference between jobs in the Middle East and jobs in Japan?
TESOL / TEFL Instructors
Position Overview:
Reporting to the Language Institute Director or Deputy, the Instructors will be engaged in teaching, advising and training.
Qualifications and Requirements:
Master's degree in TESOL / TEFL, Applied Linguistics, Education with a TESOL / TEFL component. Excellent candidates with a Bachelor's Degree plus TESOL / TEFL teaching certificate will be considered.
Minimum 3 years of English language teaching experience.
Excellent communication skills, a commitment to the importance of scholarship and diversity, a spirit of entrepreneurship and an understanding of the role of the university in economic development
Experience in working with people from different ethnic backgrounds.
Computer literacy and familiarity with educational technologies are a must.
Excellent oral, written and multimedia communication and presentation skills.
Salary and Benefits:
Competitive tax-free salary commensurate with background and experience
Three-year renewable contract.
Annual family air tickets.
Housing and furniture allowances.
Family medical co-pay plan.
End-of-service gratuity.
42 calendar days annual vacation inclusive of midyear holidays.
Direction:
All qualified interested Applicants are requested to submit an online application.
We regret that only the selected candidates will be communicated with further.
PS: I came to Japan, not to work in a conversation school, but to bide my time while making contacts in busiuness with the security and ease of a conversation school contract. I can make alot more than this as a Business Skills Trainer, so I didn't bother with the Middle East because I wanted to do something besides wasting my talent and time teaching English. Also a 3 year contract is too long for my taste and I couldn't convince my girl friend to move to the middle east. |
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shuize
Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 1270
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| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Keith_Alan_W wrote: |
| PS: I came to Japan, not to work in a conversation school, but to bide my time while making contacts in busiuness with the security and ease of a conversation school contract. I can make alot more than this as a Business Skills Trainer, so I didn't bother with the Middle East because I wanted to do something besides wasting my talent and time teaching English. Also a 3 year contract is too long for my taste and I couldn't convince my girl friend to move to the middle east. |
I thought you didn't bother with the Middle East because you had to pay extra to send your bags on Lufthansa. |
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Keith_Alan_W
Joined: 26 Mar 2006
Posts: 121
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| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| shuize wrote: |
I thought you didn't bother with the Middle East because you had to pay extra to send your bags on Lufthansa. |
The PS is about my decisions in Germany, the decisions I reconsidered after coming here. Now I'm going to Vancouver to chill for a bit, then I might go to the middle east, I might work as a technical writier, I might do a lot of things. Since I didn't get on my plane back to germany, flying to the middle east is a bit out of my price range at the moment.
You gonna send your Resume shuize? I wonder if you'd get a reply at all.. hmmmmmm, probably not. |
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womblingfree
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 826
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| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Stephen Jones wrote: |
| Quote: |
| There are already possibly as many English speakers in India as in all the native English speaking countries of the world! |
You're round the twist. A lot depends on exactly how you define native speaker, but the population of native English speakers in India is somewhere between that of New Zealand and that of Australia.
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I'm not defining English speakers in India as native speakers!  Here's a full explanation:
A survey by India Today (August 18th, 1997) found that one in three Indians claimed to understand English. Less than 20% however were confident of speaking it.
As the estimated population of India is around 1 billion those figures indicate that almost 333 million Indians understand English and almost 200 million have some spoken competence in the language.
That means that India has an English using speech community equal to the population of the USA, UK and Canada.
In China there are over 200 million students enrolled in programs in English as a foreign language. (Yong & Campbell 1995)
The users of English in both China and India add up to 533 million.
This doesn't mean that you can step off the bus anywhere in India or China and be greeted by hoardes of native speakers. But the overall English speech community is vast. |
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angrysoba
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 446
Location: Kansai, Japan
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| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| womblingfree wrote: |
A survey by India Today (August 18th, 1997) found that one in three Indians claimed to understand English. Less than 20% however were confident of speaking it.
As the estimated population of India is around 1 billion those figures indicate that almost 333 million Indians understand English and almost 200 million have some spoken competence in the language.
That means that India has an English using speech community equal to the population of the USA, UK and Canada.
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Sorry to split hairs here, but the population of the US is almost 300,000,000 by some counts while the UK and Canada would add another 100,000,000 to that. India's "English using speech community" of 200 million - according to the figures you quote - is only half of that. |
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abufletcher
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 779
Location: Shikoku Japan (for now)
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| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Keith_Alan_W wrote: |
| All I can remember is that it was more than the TU Dresden's Amerikanistic department's salary of 3500 Euro per month, at least 4000 Euro. (577,891.94 JPY or 5,605.29 CAD) |
Sorry. There's just no way these are the salaries for an EFL instructor position at ANY Gulf university. I taught at Gulf universities (Kuwait and Oman) for 12 years and these figures of yours aren't even ballpark. I wish they were!
Realistically you can expect perhaps around US$2,000 per month plus all the usual perks (annual airfare, free housing and medical, 60 days paid leave). This might not sound like much but many people easily save half of this amount each month. There are, however, many more things to spend one's money on in the UAE -- plus housing costs are skyrocketing and housing allowances are not!
BTW, the premierest of the premier EFL jobs in the UAE are at the Petroleum Institute and even their salary doesn't come up to the salaries "you were sent." And for every EFL position available at PI you can guarantee that they're getting 300+ applications from people with MA's (and Ph.D.s) and long experience in the Gulf.
| Quote: |
| http://www.adu.ac.ae/careers-at-adu-current-vacancies-CV.htm |
You might want to check out the near constant complaining about ADU over on the UAE Forum.
| Quote: |
| I found 8 more very similar positions. Read the ad carefully, see any difference between jobs in the Middle East and jobs in Japan? |
I've consistently said that for MA holders (at least those not married to Japan) the Gulf is a a more likely source of steady (and professional) employment. The money is better in Japan if you're the type who takes on all the privates you can get, but who wants to work all the time???
| Quote: |
Qualifications and Requirements: |
It's important to learn how to read these announcements:
| Quote: |
| Master's degree in TESOL / TEFL, Applied Linguistics, Education with a TESOL / TEFL component. Excellent candidates with a Bachelor's Degree plus TESOL / TEFL teaching certificate will be considered. |
Read: BA holders with YEARS of university-level Gulf experience MIGHT be considered IF we are somehow desperate. I've been on these hiring committees. They are almost NEVER desperate. And if a place is hiring BA's you definitely DON'T want to be teaching there!
| Quote: |
Excellent communication skills, a commitment to the importance of scholarship and diversity, a spirit of entrepreneurship and an understanding of the role of the university in economic development
Experience in working with people from different ethnic backgrounds. |
Written by an expat with grandious hopes of someday being an assistant director. The Emiratis who actually run the university haven't got a clue what this touchy-feely edu-speak actually means. But it does look good on the website for colleges looking for accredidation.
| Quote: |
| Computer literacy and familiarity with educational technologies are a must. |
You will spend a lot of your time in a computer lab. You will learn to make HTML vocab quizzes.
| Quote: |
Excellent oral, written and multimedia communication and presentation skills. |
You can use PowerPoint.
| Quote: |
| Competitive tax-free salary commensurate with background and experience |
You'll get what we give all our new teachers, the base salary plus maybe one or two increments. Figure about $2,000 a month.
| Quote: |
| Housing and furniture allowances. |
Don't even consider a job that doesn't specify "free housing" -- housing costs in the UAE have risen drastically over the last couple of years. These "allowances" have not.
| Quote: |
Family medical co-pay plan. |
Medical SHOULD be free (and government hospitals) of FULLY paid by employer in the case of private health.
| Quote: |
| 42 calendar days annual vacation inclusive of midyear holidays. |
The standard for most Gulf university jobs is 60 days in summer IN ADDITION to a winter break and all national holidays.
All in all, there are some good jobs in the Gulf for well-qualified people (in many fields). |
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womblingfree
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 826
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| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| angrysoba wrote: |
| womblingfree wrote: |
A survey by India Today (August 18th, 1997) found that one in three Indians claimed to understand English. Less than 20% however were confident of speaking it.
As the estimated population of India is around 1 billion those figures indicate that almost 333 million Indians understand English and almost 200 million have some spoken competence in the language.
That means that India has an English using speech community equal to the population of the USA, UK and Canada.
. |
Sorry to split hairs here, but the population of the US is almost 300,000,000 by some counts while the UK and Canada would add another 100,000,000 to that. India's "English using speech community" of 200 million - according to the figures you quote - is only half of that. |
Those estimates were from 1997.
Indias population is about 1.1 billion now and all the other populations have risen also. 333 million is about right for 1997. |
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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
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| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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T
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hat means that India has an English using speech community equal to the population of the USA, UK and Canada.
In China there are over 200 million students enrolled in programs in English as a foreign language. (Yong & Campbell 1995)
The users of English in both China and India add up to 533 million. |
So there are hundreds of million of people in India and China who can say' hello mister' and 'where from?' and "Beckham good'.
So what? Most of the population of the United States can say "oh, la, la" and "la plume de ma tante" but that doesn't mean Paris needs to worry the hegemony of the French language will come to reside in Idaho! |
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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
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| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Now the most common term is 'estuary English' which is a general term for a reasonably neutral dialect that emnates from along the Thames estuary. It's how most Brits speak these days apparently. |
Except of course for the Scots, Irish, Welsh, Geordies, Liverpuddlians, Brummies, Mancunians, Yorkshiremen, Brummies, South-Westerners and a lot I'm sure I've forgotten about. |
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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
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| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Realistically you can expect perhaps around US$2,000 per month plus all the usual perks (annual airfare, free housing and medical, 60 days paid leave). |
Depends on qualifications and experience but the figure you quote would be low even for Oman.
In Saudi you can get a starting salary of up to $2,800 at KFUPM and $3,300 at the Royal Commission. Companies routinely pay the same salary for EFL instructors, and if you can get to work for an Aramco contractor you should clear about $4,000 and more for British Aerospace (around $6,500 a month starting I believe) and not too much less for Raytheon.
You can get in the door with a BA and experience and an EFL qualification. If you have good experience then you get to the top of the pay scale.
The UAE has pay that is about the same, but because the country is less restrictive there are more people looking for a job, so you would probably need to be better qualified.
As has been said Abu Dhabi University has a terrible reputation. |
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