Job Discussion Forums

SwimminThruAsia · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 24

So,

I've been looking into getting certified as a public school teacher over in America. It seems that once you are certified, you can go abroad under MUCH better positions..I've seen plenty advertised that are 50k + a year, with the summers off. Things like international schools.

Why do so many people linger in the TEFL world when immensely better conditions seem just a short hop away??
Even if you do snag something like a DELTA, you'll still probably just get twice the regular TEFL wage, and maybe 2 weeks of vaca a year instead of a summer.

Why all the TEFLers then?

denise · Joined: 23 Apr 2003 Posts: 3419 Location: finally home-ish

Well, because EFL and ESL (is that what you're getting certified in?) are very different things. EFL also includes the lifestyle--the teacher living abroad and dealing with daily trivialities that you'd never get to experience as a tourist. It is both frustrating and rewarding. We teach to generally homogeneous groups with the same L1, which has advantages and disadvantages--either way, different from an ESL classroom. We have more variety in the types of classes that we can choose to teach--public schools, universities, private English institutes, business classes, private students. Also, although I have no personal experience, never having taught in the US public school system, from what I have heard, the students there are... difficult. Where I am now, there are no discipline problems, no safety issues, etc. My students are all sweethearts!

I am thinking of making the switch, but mainly for job security reasons--my heart is still with EFL and the lifestyle that it entails.

d

Justin Trullinger · Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:03 pm Post subject:

I have had relatively little contact with international schools, but a little peripheral contact with them in Ecuador and Spain (taught some of their students in after school programs), and was for a brief time an adjunct intructor in the area of theatre in one in Italy.

And I have to say- Not for fifty grand a year! Not for five hundred grand a year! They may not all be the same, but the ones I've had most contact with were intolerable, insufferable little spoiled snots, convinced of their entitlement to privilege, with parents who have no idea what their little brats are like, and won't hear that they are anything but angelic. School administration discourages telling them, in any case, as they pay the bills. This is not my idea of a good time.

I'm not saying that they aren't good jobs. By some standards they may be. But if I was hung up on high salaries, I probably wouldn't have left my home country in the first place. And what I've seen of international schools abroad, salary aside, interests me very little.

Best,
Justin

mlomker · Joined: 24 Mar 2005 Posts: 378

My understanding is that the International Schools want teachers that are not only certified but have years of experience in their home countries. I ran across a guy with the England teaching certification (PGCE?) but without teaching experience at home and he couldn't qualify for a job.

I have heard that ESL jobs in the US are quite rare--to the point that there are no full time positions. You end up working multiple part-time jobs and commuting quite a bit...to earn a wage that you can barely live on.

I saw an ad for a school in Beijing that paid $15-25k RMB. You've actually seen $50k being offered? That's good money for an English teaching gig, but that's with an MA in ESL/certification/years of experience at home.

I don't know...Masters degrees are US $15k (tuition only) and schools like SIT are US $25k+. I don't see the math working out favorably. I've thought about this approach...convince me that I'm wrong. Wink

denise · Joined: 23 Apr 2003 Posts: 3419 Location: finally home-ish

saint57 · Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:51 pm Post subject:

mlomker · Joined: 24 Mar 2005 Posts: 378

guangho · Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Posts: 476 Location: in transit

I'm in this M.Ed. program (http://www.mastersinpoland.com) percisely because getting a Masters opens more doors. The program is intense due to the way it is structured but it's worth it.

Justin Trullinger · Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:43 am Post subject:

Hey Mlomker,
If you've ever thought of doing your SIT TESOL cert abroad, give me a call!

Justin

tedkarma · Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:48 am Post subject:

Another reason many of us stay overseas also - is to avoid the extreme political correctness back home (not the only reason of course but one of many!).

I am a teacher trainer in Bangkok right now and frequently teach/work with experienced teachers. Particularly the ones who teach kids talk about how it is nice to be able to give a kid a hug without worrying about a child molestation accusation.

For me, for example, with was nice to be able to meet with my female students at the university in Korea and Taiwan - in my office without worry of needing a witness or making sure the door is kept open so I won't be accussed of misbehavior.

There is so much concern over the legal system and liability back home - they we often lose sight of what we are doing. What we are, or should be doing - is helping people - not just covering our butts.

That's one reason I never want to teach back home - or in many of the international schools that are clones of that type of thinking.

Would like the money, yes. But, would sorely miss the other world experience.

Super Mario · Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 2:22 am Post subject:

Saint 57 appears to be leading a remarkable life: currently in Shanghai, with Kunshan prior to that, and a Chinese ex GF of 7 years, not to mention time in Pusan, whilst presently doing a B.Ed in Canada which he funded by working in EFL for all of two years.
Wow. His posts make entertaining, if confusing, reading.
Walter F. Mitty, mendacious, or on something?

saint57 · Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 4:50 am Post subject:

Exposed! Finally, after all these years someone put all of the pieces together. I'm surprised my web of lies stayed together for so long. I had a great time giving fictional opinions and writing fictional stories about an English teacher. If anyone had to take me down, I'm glad it was Super Mario. R.I.P. saint57 Sad

Super Mario · Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:47 am Post subject:

To the OP:
The time, cost, and uncertainty of regular, let alone permanent, employment puts many people off. Toying with English teaching in a developing country does not tempt them to take it on as an occupation in their home country.

I came from the opposite direction, having been a mainstream high school English [as in Shakespeare] teacher for many years. I found EFL in China to be challenging and interesting, so re-trained in TESOL, and am now teaching ESL in my home country. Small classes, decent students.

Bear in mind my working hours there were about half what they are here. My healthy salary here covers the mortgage, car, health care, utilities etc. In China my salary was mine, and lots of it.
And EFL positions are very easy to find as we all know.

SwimminThruAsia · Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 24

I think you guys misunderstood me..

I'm not talking about continuing TEFL, I meant getting certified to teach a subject like social studies or science, and then aiming to get a job at a school abroad.

My dream job (which I've seen advertised) would be something like teaching middle school social studies in Prague for $50,000 a year with the summers off.

I'd toil for a bit in the states to get some experience, and then hop over.

Thats the plan.

Justin Trullinger · Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:35 pm Post subject:

But the thing is, most of us are qualified in EFL, not content specific teaching. Sure, we could requalify, but the amount of retraining needed for the kinds of jobs you're talking about would often be a lot. For some, it might be cost prohibitive. (Think lost income while studying as well as cost of course.) For some, it might just be less interesting.

For me, there's still the issue of who you'd be teaching for that kind of money.

And if there's an international school job going in Poland for 50K, good luck to whoever gets it- but most pay less. And most still require you to be state certified back home (which takes time and money) and that you have some years experience in mainstream educaction back home. (which takes time, and years off your life!) If you think about spending the time, the money, and the stress, it becomes clear why international schools pay better than TEFL.

For me, it wouldn't be worth it, at least not now. I earn, as a TEFL teacher, enough to live well enough, where I want to live, right now. I could spend a lot of time/cash retraining to live down the road from here, with more money in the bank, 5 years from now. Why wait?

Justin