Job Discussion Forums

[suomineito]

Hi! Total newbie here in this forum wishing to get some info, ideas...

I'm 22 years old educational science / elementary school teacher student and qualified dance teacher from Finland (North Europe) and I speak English as my second language (excellent, but I'm not native speaker tough). I would like to know what are my possibilities as teaching English language or elementary classes in English abroad. I'm planning my career as a teacher in International Schools (elementary levels) but before heading to Italy for the rest of my life, that's my plan yeah, I would be interested in to teach English language somewhere abroad for some summers or even a couple of years... Caribbean, Brazil, Italy, Thailand...

So my question is that am I qualified to teach English in language schools, English speaking kindergartens etc. with my university degree (which takes around 5 years and is called master of educational science: elementary school teacher for kids around 7 to 13 years old) or do I still need some other qertification like CETA, TESOL or so? My university degree doesn't include large studies about teaching English and it's not very easy here to get to study English literature etc. so I can't do it even I know it could be the best for me in this situation.

So, if you guys think I would need a certificate to proof my language skills as well as teaching ability in that, what is the qualification that you would recommend to me? I have been searching for courses for some time but I'm not really sure which one suits me the best and which one would be the best and most recognised abroad.

I have quite a lot of experience working with children in English speaking environment like as school attendance assistant in bilingual elementary school and I've been also working as an English speaking nanny in UK, Italy and NYC. So my aim is to keep on teaching children, not adults. I'm also planning to study/work in English speaking country for 1-2 years to improve my language skills as I'm sure that's nothing more than bonus when applying for a teacher position in International School. But anyway I think in some case I might loose the position for a native speaker even if I stayed for years in English speaking country and even if I had great degree, right?

I would be very happy if people here would comment my plans and my possibilities as well as giving some ideas how could I go on with this plan, specially if I need a qertificate and what could it be. Thank you!

[tedkarma]

If you are fully qualified to teach in the public schools in your home country and are doing so, you would be qualified to work in the major international schools overseas. However, they almost all want at least 2-3 years experience, which I am guessing at 22, you don't have.

Int'l schools offer a FAR superior wage package and quality of life compared to language schools. And, in many countries, the language schools will want you to have a passport from what they perceive as being an English speaking country.

It would be very much worth your time to get a couple more years experience under your belt and head out via the int'l schools - just my opinion.

If you are just looking for a few months of travel and fun - most language schools will want a one year contract.

In Thailand though - you might be able to land some short term work - though even in Thailand they are usually looking for teachers who are going to stick around.

[suomineito]

Thanks tedkarma for your reply. That's true, I don't have enough experience to teach in International Schools, yet. I'm still studying my university degree to become elementary school teacher (I'll graduate in a couple of years and will be full qualified to teach in my home country) and I'm planning to stay teaching in my home country for a year or couple, or then start straight with temporary teacher positions (maternity leave covers etc) in UK for example. But so far I have a lot of experience with kids as I've been working over 2 years as school attendance assistant and during my studies we need to do teacher experience periods (many months) and I'm also working sometimes as teachers substitute + all the summerjobs I have had somehow related to kids and teaching. So I think it's possible for me to get started with some temporary positions and then when I get more experience, for that 2 years for example, I'll have more possibilities of course.

But my question is do you think I could get a job from International School with my university degree or do I need some other kind of qualifications for that as well (like CELTA for example) if I have experience in English speaking country or if I have experience just in my home country?

And the other thing, you mentioned that most of the teaching jobs are one year contracts but there might be short term positions as well... should I have CELTA, TEFL, TESOL or some other for those short term positions (I think would like to spend summer 2007 teaching somewhere) or is it possible to get a summer job, from Brazil for example, just "without anything" (of course I can tell them about my experience so far and about my studies but I don't have a real English teacher certification)? Many jobs that I have found from Italy require TEFL/TESOL certificate but the thing that I wonder is that many of them are not asking "a real teacher qualification" (from university) but they can take a person that has done a month course and can speak fluently... In my opinion a real teacher qualification that takes around 5 years to get + fluency in English is much more than a month TEFL course that you can also do online if you want... So is it possible that I loose the game for a guy that has one month education?

[mlomker]

[suomineito]

Thanks mlomker!

"I think if you're a licensed teacher then your employment outlook will be very bright." --- With my home country teacher degree + a couple of years experience or with that degree + CELTA/TEFL/TESOL + a couple of years experience? Without a passport of English speaking country? And I think you have a clue about what are the countries that don't care so much about the passport of English speaking country so could you please let me know (of course I'll do some research by myself as soon as I have some time to find out more...)? I'm basically interested in Central America/ South America + South European/ East European countries (but also others like Thailand etc if my priority countries are impossible for me, I just want to go abroad and teach kids!).

[Cdaniels]

I've wanted to visit Finland myslef. Perhaps someday. You seem to be assuming, as mlomker, that the system is logical and comprehensible. Often Immigration in various countries will only give working visas to people who have an obvious skill that native workers lack. Native English speakers qualify because they can make this claim (even if they are terrible teachers and know much less about English than native teachers of the respective country!) Although schools might love to hire you because of your experience and actual ability, Immigration may claim that their country has enough non-native speakers of English.
Its terribly unfair but that's the first problem you will be faced with. Look at the requirements of getting a work visa, and the various employers' requirements seperately.
There are many other problems and complications you may run into. Realize that Latin America is not like Sweden- there is no love of efficiency and promptness. Also consider carefully if you are willing to work illegally. In countries like Brazil this may be your only chance at finding work as a teacher, but the pay will not reflect the risk or hardship.

[acwilliams]

OP, as Cdaniels says, the only simple answer to your questions is that there is no simple answer.

To get a work visa, some countries (eg Indonesia) require you to be a native speaker of English. Others (eg China, Thailand) don't. Also, some countries (eg Japan, Korea) require you to have a degree in any subject - not necessarily education - and this won't be a problem for you.

As your degree will be in elementary education, I'd say you have no need of a TEFL certificate. A TEFL cert doesn't prove your ability to speak English and it won't add very much to your set of teaching skills, especially if you're planning to teach young children.

Even in countries that allow non-native speakers to get work visas, some individual schools may well be put off by your Finnish nationality. However, some will accept you regardless of this, if they are convinced that your English is native-like.

If you had an advanced English qualification, such as scoring Band 9 on IELTS, this would prove your ability to speak English. The Cambridge TKT (Teacher Knowledge Test) might also be suitable for you.

What I've said here relates only to working in TEFL-type jobs abroad, not to international schools. International schools are a different kettle of fish, and you'll need to build up a solid CV in the state education system in your own country before an international school abroad will take you on.

[tedkarma]

If you are well-qualified (as it sounds like you will be) and experienced (as you plan to be) - your passport won't matter much to an international school. It is a whole different ball game.

Language schools have different rules to follow than international schools. An int'l school may want to know that you speak English well, but that is it. In fact, international schools will PREFER an international staff - some of students (read customers) will be from your country/region and you will help sell the "international-ness" of the program.

A TEFL certificate of any kind (and I advocate them), TKT, IELTS, or any other qualification, will be a waste of time and money and not even appropriate for you. You will be far more qualified by the time you do the things you plan to do.

Don't get distracted from the excellent path you are on.

[The_Hanged_Man]

I'm going abroad to an international school this year, and while all schools state that they want 2 years of experience in a pinch they will hire someone who is freshly certified. I know for a fact that my school has hired people without experience for this year. Now it might not be a top-tier school or in a less than attractive country, but it would be a beginning. In any case it would probably be better than a public school in your home country, and when you finish your first contract then things would really open up for you.

[dan_lawrence]

Hi! I just read your postings and have some observations. Regardless of your excellent educational background in Finland, your english skills as demonstrated in your postings IMHO need work before you can teach english (ESL,TESOL,TEFL etc.) at an advanced level. There are just too many mistakes. I am currently taking Jeff M's distance course and find it very challenging even though I am a native speaker and have an MA in Linguistics. I'm sure you can learn and understand the techniques of a TEFL course, but I suggest you first do intensive training with a qualified native speaker of english who will give you "tuff love". Se on hauska tutustuva!

[suomineito]

Thank you for your comments. It seems I don't really need TEFL or other certificate as I'm learning teaching techniques etc. in my university degree... but I was basically thinking to do it because I would love to work abroad for some summers (also before graduating) and it looks like everyone is asking that certificate... So far I've been working as an "English speaking nanny" in families and hotels kids clubs, basically just speaking in English for kids and trying to make them to use their language skills + giving some very basic lessons but the thing is that I'm quite bored to look for private jobs (like in families) as they're usually looking for unqualified aupairs with no or just a little experience which we can see in the salary that they're offering (basically they offer like 100-400euros per a month and you need to work 50hours, or even more, per week!). I know salaries are not very high in language schools either, and the days are long, but being as a "teacher" even for young learners rather than "aupair" (and for many people nanny means the same as aupair) should give you a bit more money as well... and that's my career, I love being with kids and teaching them, not just being a babysitter.

I know my English is still full of mistakes and needs to be improved a lot before I could teach in an International school so that's why I'm planning a year or couple in UK for example just to improve my language skills. I know it takes many years to make my English "native" and maybe it won't be absolutely native never, but I think that doesn't really matter.

By the way what's your opinion about "native speaker", I could say my English is fluent, excellent or nearly native but does it never become really native? Even if I lived 5, 10 or 30 years in a native speaking country (using and improving the language of course)? This is what I've been discussing a lot with my friends but we don't really know... Thinking about an old lady that has been living in English speaking country for 20 or 40 years for example, she might not remember her mother tongue anymore (or she speaks that with funny accent etc) so what's her native language then? When a language becomes "native" if it ever does or is your native language the one that you have been speaking with your mom when you were a child? How about kids that speak 2 languages at home (Swedish with mom and Finnish with dad for example), do they have 2 native languages then or is the one native that the child speaks more (and studies with that languge)?

the hanged man: Where are you going to work? Just being curious.

dan lawrence: Hauska tutustua!

[Jizzo T. Clown]

suomineito--

I have no doubt that your spoken English is near-perfect. The tough part (IMHO) will be getting your writing up to native-status.